bcss reports and figures

[Diane]

I'm sure that the BCSS would be very interested in your conclusions, Robert - it's something they've been trying to do for many years, and still haven't found the answer!

[Robert K]

pretty much it has to be based on horticulure problem is the further years go by the more topics are taken. however at my college there is no cacti based dissertations aprt form one which touches it which is based on houseplants

[sandi]

Robert I must say that I have a feeling you are trying to hard to find a cactus based topic for your dissertation. Once you have an idea you should go and talk to your mentor, but before doing that you have to have some ideas how to make it happen. For the last month you had so many ideas, but as soon as you had one you put it aside cause there was another one. If you continue like that you won't make your dissertation in this lifetime. Grab one idea and start working on it. You have to do some research on your own not just asking people for this and that.
I don't mean to sound rude, but as a teacher I sense when people are avoiding work and want to make everything as easy as possible with no effort input.
I hope it sounds logical what I was trying to say.

[Peter]

I used to be a director of a couple of companies and if I saw mention of the word 'income' in any document, I would immediately investigate with a view to assessing whether that 'income' was beneficial and correctly described.
Given that Robert wishes to use BCSS account data going back a decade for his own ends and not for any discernible benefit to the Society, I would suggest that before such information is provided there should be agreement that such dissertation be perused and sanctioned by officers of the Society in order that errors may be corrected and that no misunderstandings may be formed by future readers of the document.
My opinion is that Robert should have made this offer at the time of making his initial request.

[Mal H]

Robert, you will be examined on how scholarly your dissertation is, not how original your ideas are. As a university lecturer I will echo Sandi's direct comments and similarly suggest you spend your time on one good idea (you have had several already) and then work on a good plan (essential for all good dissertations) before you start researching it with your plan in mind.

Most of your marks will come from clarity, composition, hypothesis and clear direction. My pet hates when I mark are the lack of an obvious plan and poor punctuation. I am sure your tutor/mentor will be similarly pedantic.

[Robert K]

hmmmm some good points there. i am however got this problem

i need to find something which has not been looked at yet has had information made for it. i want to do cacti as its a hobby of mine and will have motivation but i have to do something else then so be it. i have plenty of time to decide on something was just putting some ideas on the board to see what people reckon

[DaveW]

Personally, being a Secondary Modern School kid who left at 15 I would have thought originality and the ability to think outside the box should be the first thing lecturers marking work should be looking for? The world is populated by people who can learn things parrot fashion and then work it up into an article. What Britain needs from our universities is people who can come out with original ideas, not just those who just quote the textbooks verbatim.

My uncle was an electrical engineer and used to complain that universities were turning out people who were still trying to apply outdated ideas from their school text books which industry had either proved long ago were unworkable, or had moved on to newer methods.

I believe it was Eric Laithwaite, the man who invented the linear induction motor used in the magnetic levitation trains, who said that many students could tell him how these things worked better than he could, but surprisingly hardly any of them ever came up with an original idea, or could invent something new in the first place.

Perhaps exams should be biased not so much to if you have learnt your text books, but what you can come up that is original and workable?

As everybody will have noted I can't punctuate either Mal, but if that is what examiners are concentrating on rather than ideas then they have lost the plot? I have always maintained all teachers should have to do at least 5 years in outside industry before they can enter the teaching profession in order to prepare them for what industry needs from their students. Far too many still enter teaching straight from university rather than after some experiance of industry and the real world. Maybe in future it is not just students who need to be sent out into industry for work experiance, but all teachers be required to go into industry for 6 months work experiance every 5 years to keep them up to date?(:P)

DaveW:)o

[Colin Walker]

DaveW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, being a Secondary Modern School kid
> who left at 15 I would have thought originality
> and the ability to think outside the box should be
> the first thing lecturers marking work should be
> looking for? The world is populated by people who
> can learn things parrot fashion and then work it
> up into an article. What Britain needs from our
> universities is people who can come out with
> original ideas, not just those who just quote the
> textbooks verbatim.
>
> My uncle was an electrical engineer and used to
> complain that universities were turning out people
> who were still trying to apply outdated ideas from
> their school text books which industry had either
> proved long ago were unworkable, or had moved on
> to newer methods.
>
> I believe it was Eric Laithwaite, the man who
> invented the linear induction motor used in the
> magnetic levitation trains, who said that many
> students could tell him how these things worked
> better than he could, but surprisingly hardly any
> of them ever came up with an original idea, or
> could invent something new in the first place.
>
> Perhaps exams should be biased not so much to if
> you have learnt your text books, but what you can
> come up that is original and workable?

>
> DaveW:)o

Hi Dave,

Those of us in Higher Education do strive to produce students who can think for themselves, but this has to be built of a solid foundation of knowledge and skills development. The main second level biology course here at the OU that I chair prides itself particularly in developing the skill of report writing, amongst other things. Each report that a student writes (6 in the 60 point course) is a moderately long piece of well structured text that like the traditional essay (which we no longer ask our students to write, at least in my course) has a beginning, solid middle and above all a well thought out ending - the conclusion. The titles I set are challenging, require selection of material to support arguments for and against a particular statement. I also insist these are illustrated with sketches too, and all have to be properly referenced and hence are built on solid study.

In order to come up with original thinking a student does need a good grasp of the knowledge that's already around. There is no point in re-inventing the wheel!

Lecture over!

[DaveW]

My late Uncles contention was that the students being turned out in his time were trying to reinvent the wheel Colin. Nothing wrong with that if you come up with a new and better wheel, but not if you simply re-invent the same old one!

He too was a Secondary Modern School kid who worked his way up through the "ranks", no unnecessary university report writing etc, but he had quite a few patents in his name, which, as is normal practice if they are invented in their employ, belonged to the firms he worked for at the time. In fact he told me that some of his patents had been bought up by large organisations just to kill them off since they would render obsolete their present processes they had already spent considerable sums developing.

The best way to get employees with a sound grounding in an industry is to start them at the bottom and let them work their way up, not try to short circuit the process by introducing green university students at a much later stage just because they have a degree but no real experiance of the industry concerned. OK by all means let's have people with university degrees going into industry, but then start them off as apprentices not managers straight from school.

DaveW

[Phil_SK]

What is this 'industry' thing you speak of?