What cacti do you buy?

[Botanist]

I am a special guy I know ! Exept this year on the ELK (were you can find almost eveything when you take your time) I normaly buy nothing more. For about ten years now I just try to propagate the precial plants I have, so I can swap with others who are specialised in other plants or genera I am looking for. So far it works. Other think I will mention. When I make a visit to an other collection, I almost have some nice plants in my car. Never left without some nice swaps.

[Samuel]

I buy things I want to grow from seed. You have to get them fertilised first, true, but once you do that you have plenty of seed from selected parents.

[sandi]

Lately I haven't bought anything, but When I do its mostly the rare stuff like Ariocarpus, some Turbinicarpus and so on. Last year I bought 4 A. caput medusae and this year I had my own seed. There are 4-5 small seedlings growing in the greenhouse at the moment and I grafted two. I also gave some seed (7-8) to a good friend to try.
Anttun, Do you buy plants from EU with certificates or not. If not and there are no problems with the customs then We could do some swapping.

[SimonR]

Try to limit myself to Gymnos, but I've now succumb to the temptations of Mediolobivias. Now hang on, I did get that Lophophora in September, some conophytums and that Ferocactus with the lovely spines....

Trying desperately to get my work colleagues hooked too, although it's an uphill struggle as they all insist on referring to them as cactuses and not cacti (grrrr - that's a pet hate of mine)

[DaveW]

Your friends are correct Simon, cactuses (or cactus's as some use) and cacti are the correct plurals, singular it is always a cactus and never a cacti. You can't say I have a cactuses, so you should never say I have a cacti, but I have a cactus. I have a collection of cacti or cactuses is correct, but never I have a cactuses or cacti collection, but in that case I have a cactus collection. The easy way to remember is if you cannot substitute the word cactuses for cacti in a sentence the correct word to use is cactus.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cactuses

DaveW

[jfabiao]

Dave, do you realize you have just given the perfect explanation as to why so many people choose to have succulents instead of - or besides - cacti?

[SimonR]

I find this interesting though - the link you provided gives cacti as the first spelling then cactuses as the second spelling (all good so far). Unfortunately, the Collins dictionary that I use at work gives cactuses as the first spelling, but when you look up cholla it says 'any of several spiny cacti of the genus Opuntia'

Cambridge online dictionary goes with cacti - think I'll stick with them!

Ok, Ok, I know it's 'one crocus, two crocuses', but when it comes to our spiny friends, it's got to be 'one cactus, two cacti' surely. I notice that the etymology of cactus comes from the Greek kaktos which in turn refers to the cardoon - fascinating! There must be a QI qustion waiting in the wings for this - Alan Davis better get 50 points deducted when he says cactuses!

Comments from lexicographers out there would be very welcome.

[DaveW]

I don't think the order the spellings are listed matters, it is whether they are listed as singular or plural. See:-

http://www.english-zone.com/spelling/plurals.html

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_Cactus_singular_or_plural

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cactus

From the Web:-

"Incidentally, "cactus" is another word that people assume to be Latin and make "cacti" the plural. The original word is "kaktos", the plural of which is "kaktoi".

So you can be pedantic and insist on "octopodes" and "cactoi"; you can be foolish and insist on "octopi" and "cacti"; or you can take a much preferable middle ground and just say "octopuses" and "cactuses" and leave all the silly etymological stuff for the people who care way too much about it."

"But it must be said that people tend to go a bit overboard with their Latin and Greek plurals. 'Fora' as the plural of 'forum' always seemed a bit pretentious to me, for example. Most foreign plurals eventually become Anglicised anyway, and there is nothing wrong with 'octopuses', 'cactuses', 'uteruses' and 'forums'"

From Wikipedia:-

"cactus, cactuses/cacti (in Arizona many people avoid either choice with cactus as both singular and plural.)"

But obviously Americans only speak proper English as a second language!

Also from the Web:-

"It is never wrong to use an English plural for any word in English. Cactuses, ocopuses and walruses are all correct. Walrus is a Germanic word and cannot have the Latin plural so "walruses" is the only option (although you could use "walrus" for both singular and plural). "Cactus" is Latin and can have the plural "cacti" but "octopus" is Greek so the plural should be "octopodes".Unless you know for certain what the classical plural is, stick to English plurals, you can't go wrong.Here are a few classical singulars and plurals to show you some of the snares if you use classical plurals without knowing what you are doing.genus/generathesis/thesesmiasma/miasmataforceps/forcipesindex/indicesmedium/mediarhinoceros/rhinocerodesmantis/mantidsplatypus/platypodesOn top of that there are many words that end in "-us" that cannot take the Latin plural form "-i" because although they are Latin words, they are not Latin nouns. Probably the two most well known of these are "omnibus/bus" and "virus". The only possible plurals in English are "buses" and "viruses"

"There is some dispute as to the proper plural form of the word; as a Greek loan into English, the correct plural in English would be "cactoi" or "cactuses." However, as a word in Botanical Latin (as distinct from Classical Latin), "cactus" would follow standard Latin rules for pluralization and become "cacti," which has become the prevalent usage in English. Regardless, cactus is popularly used as both singular and plural, and is cited as both singular and plural by the Random House Unabridged Dictionary (2006)."

Seems the general consensus is that cactus is singular and both cacti and cactuses can be used as the plural.

DaveW

[anders]

... they are not Latin nouns. Probably the two most well known of these are "omnibus/bus" and "virus".

Must be a real genius who wrote that ...
Both omnibus and virus are nouns, but omnibus is already a plural, and virus (venom) did not have a plural form.

Incidentally, "cactus" is another word that people assume to be Latin and make "cacti" the plural. The original word is "kaktos", the plural of which is "kaktoi" ... as a Greek loan into English, the correct plural in English would be "cactoi" or "cactuses."

Greek? The word was borrowed from Latin (which in turn borrowed it from Greek). I guess it should have whatever Latin plural form it had when it was introduced in the English vocabulary? Sometimes Greek loans into Latin kept their Greek plurals, sometimes not. In this case it was changed to the Latin cacti.
Yes, I know it is not my problem, but I wonder where the idea that it should have a Greek plural came from. Assume that cactus could be traced even further back , to a word from one of the long-forgotten languages that preceded Greek, would the plural be that of this ancient word just because cactus was ultimately derived from it?

I know it's 'one crocus, two crocuses'

The original Latin plural is croci, but I guess it has been anglicized a long time ago.

[DaveW]

Just quoting the differences of opinion from the Web Anders. Some of the origins of these names are seemingly lost in the mists of time. It seems Linnaeus selected it for our group of plants, but I don't know what he claimed as the root, but again from the Web:-

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_c ... t_its_name

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cactus

http://www.answers.com/topic/cactus

A question for QI Simon? Quotes from The QI Forum link below:-

"Does the plural of octopus (and indeed cactus) end in "-i" or "-uses"? The etymology of both words appears to be Latin from Greek, so which language's rules do they obey? Where's that resident language expert of ours gone?"

"To be honest, once a word is accepted into another language, the plurality rules of the original language no longer need to be followed. 'Typhoon' is from Japanese, a language with unmarked plural, and we have no problem saying 'typhoons'"

"Cactus" is slightly more complicated, because it does come into English from Greek káktos via Latin cactus (which doesn't mean a cactus). The Greek plural would be káktoi I think (and the Latin plural would be cacti). I'd use "cactuses" in English, but "cacti" is so widespread that I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that it's wrong. In the south of the USA where they have those very large ones, they tend to use "cactus" as both singular and plural."

http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?start=0&t=5234

To get back to the purpose of this thread "What cacti do you buy". I find many nurserymen stop growing former new novelties after a while and move onto something new, so it then becomes hard to get hold of things like Eriosyce lauii etc.

DaveW