Also on Jersey were, of course, large swathes of Carpobrotus edulis:
Carpobrotus
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Carpobrotus
Tony Roberts
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(Gasteria, Mammillaria, small Opuntia, Cleistocactus and Sempervivum are my current special interests)
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- MikeT
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Re: Carpobrotus
Are the purple flowered ones edulis, Tony?
It's supposed to be yellow flowered, fading to pink. In the past, I've seen this purple flowered plant on the cliffs in Cornwall, and taken it to be C. edulis. Having seen various Carpobrotus growing in Australia and New Zealand, I've been checking more carefully how to ID the different species. The only one that's easy is C. edulis, because it's the only yellow flowered one. Which leaves me puzzled as to the ID of the Channel Island and Cornish plants with purple flowers. Different species? Hybrid? Anyone able to shed light on this?
It's supposed to be yellow flowered, fading to pink. In the past, I've seen this purple flowered plant on the cliffs in Cornwall, and taken it to be C. edulis. Having seen various Carpobrotus growing in Australia and New Zealand, I've been checking more carefully how to ID the different species. The only one that's easy is C. edulis, because it's the only yellow flowered one. Which leaves me puzzled as to the ID of the Channel Island and Cornish plants with purple flowers. Different species? Hybrid? Anyone able to shed light on this?
Mike T
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- Tony R
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Re: Carpobrotus
Hi Mike, Pass. Not my area of expertise at all. All I can say was that it was amongst a large area of potentially yellow flowered ones, but was the only one and there weren't any other flowers really close by.MikeT wrote:Are the purple flowered ones edulis, Tony?
Tony Roberts
Treasurer, Haworthia Society
Chairman, Tephrocactus Study Group
Moderator, BCSS Forum
Kent
(Gasteria, Mammillaria, small Opuntia, Cleistocactus and Sempervivum are my current special interests)
Treasurer, Haworthia Society
Chairman, Tephrocactus Study Group
Moderator, BCSS Forum
Kent
(Gasteria, Mammillaria, small Opuntia, Cleistocactus and Sempervivum are my current special interests)
- eduart
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Re: Carpobrotus
Hi,
We have in New Zealand two naturalized species: C. edulis and C. aequilaterus. Edulis is mostly yellow, but has a pink form as well, which is somewhat lighter coloured than the other pinkish or purplish Carpobrotus species. I have seen them in couple of places growing together. At least, I know directly only C. edulis and C. aequilaterus (Australian native) being naturalized in New Zealand. The latter was named in earlier accounts C. chilensis (obviously from Chile) which is extremely similar, but it seems they realized it is Australian material that managed to naturalize here. One way to tell apart C. edulis from C. aequilaterus even without flowers is to walk the middle finger (which is the most sensitive) over the keel; in C. edulis feels slightly rougher to the touch (minutely jagged), while in C. aequilaterus the keel is smoother. Ity takes a bit of training (repeated comparisons) but once you know them you can't mix them up anymore. Visually you can't tell them apart. I have no idea with other species.
Cheers,
Eduart
We have in New Zealand two naturalized species: C. edulis and C. aequilaterus. Edulis is mostly yellow, but has a pink form as well, which is somewhat lighter coloured than the other pinkish or purplish Carpobrotus species. I have seen them in couple of places growing together. At least, I know directly only C. edulis and C. aequilaterus (Australian native) being naturalized in New Zealand. The latter was named in earlier accounts C. chilensis (obviously from Chile) which is extremely similar, but it seems they realized it is Australian material that managed to naturalize here. One way to tell apart C. edulis from C. aequilaterus even without flowers is to walk the middle finger (which is the most sensitive) over the keel; in C. edulis feels slightly rougher to the touch (minutely jagged), while in C. aequilaterus the keel is smoother. Ity takes a bit of training (repeated comparisons) but once you know them you can't mix them up anymore. Visually you can't tell them apart. I have no idea with other species.
Cheers,
Eduart
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Re: Carpobrotus
Tony,
There is of course the excellent article in the last issue of the online Acta Succulenta, on page 39 just after my Kenya article.
Here is an excerpt: "Although very similar, the two common species on European
coasts, Carpobrotus edulis and Carpobrotus acinaciformis rarely coexist
in the same spot. Yet the only plant capable of holding back the local
expansion of C. edulis is C. acinaciformis and vice versa! In some spots,
you find just one and elsewhere the other, without understanding
an ecological explanation for this (their needs and behaviour seem
identical). When there is a mixture of pink flowers and yellow
flowers in the same spot, it is often C. edulis alone, whose flower
colour varies from yellowish-white to pinkish in one population
and not the vivid purplish rose of C. acinaciformis."
For the full article please see: http://www.acta-succulenta.eu/index.php ... clc=1&zc=L and hopefully you'll be able to download it with ease.
Al
There is of course the excellent article in the last issue of the online Acta Succulenta, on page 39 just after my Kenya article.
Here is an excerpt: "Although very similar, the two common species on European
coasts, Carpobrotus edulis and Carpobrotus acinaciformis rarely coexist
in the same spot. Yet the only plant capable of holding back the local
expansion of C. edulis is C. acinaciformis and vice versa! In some spots,
you find just one and elsewhere the other, without understanding
an ecological explanation for this (their needs and behaviour seem
identical). When there is a mixture of pink flowers and yellow
flowers in the same spot, it is often C. edulis alone, whose flower
colour varies from yellowish-white to pinkish in one population
and not the vivid purplish rose of C. acinaciformis."
For the full article please see: http://www.acta-succulenta.eu/index.php ... clc=1&zc=L and hopefully you'll be able to download it with ease.
Al
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Re: Carpobrotus
It seems the name C. aequilaterus is nom nud, (a naked name) one without a valid type description thus it is an illegal taxon.
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/40001772?t ... dinatetaxa
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/700014
C. chilensis seems to be an accepted name but I cannot check the actual type description because the journal in which it was published in 1928 is only digitised to 1922. http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item ... 1/mode/1up
Note that both of these names were 'published' on the same page324, of the Journal of Botany, British and Foreign (1928).
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/703799.
Incidentally as an aside, C. edulis is an immensely misused name in Britain.
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/40001772?t ... dinatetaxa
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/700014
C. chilensis seems to be an accepted name but I cannot check the actual type description because the journal in which it was published in 1928 is only digitised to 1922. http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item ... 1/mode/1up
Note that both of these names were 'published' on the same page324, of the Journal of Botany, British and Foreign (1928).
http://www.tropicos.org/Name/703799.
Incidentally as an aside, C. edulis is an immensely misused name in Britain.
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Re: Carpobrotus
Useful info, Eduart, Al and Derrick.
The Acta Succulenta article seems to indicate that the Cornish ones are edulis if yellow/pink flowered ,and acinaciformis if purple/magenta flowered.
Plants in Australia & New Zealand will be more complicated, as there are various purple/magenta flowered Australian natives. I didn't get any photos, due the rain and hail at the time, but at the edge of the beach in Sumner, Christchurch, along the Esplanade, was a lot of Carpobrotus, I think purple flowered, but having seen lots of Carpobrotus in various different sites, I can't guarantee the colour from memory. It does make for a splash of colour, but as the Acta Succulenta article describes, can be a thug destroying the local ecosystem. Not one for the garden in Sheffield. I'll stick to Delospermas.
The Acta Succulenta article seems to indicate that the Cornish ones are edulis if yellow/pink flowered ,and acinaciformis if purple/magenta flowered.
Plants in Australia & New Zealand will be more complicated, as there are various purple/magenta flowered Australian natives. I didn't get any photos, due the rain and hail at the time, but at the edge of the beach in Sumner, Christchurch, along the Esplanade, was a lot of Carpobrotus, I think purple flowered, but having seen lots of Carpobrotus in various different sites, I can't guarantee the colour from memory. It does make for a splash of colour, but as the Acta Succulenta article describes, can be a thug destroying the local ecosystem. Not one for the garden in Sheffield. I'll stick to Delospermas.
Mike T
Sheffield Branch
BCSS member26525
Sheffield Branch
BCSS member26525
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Re: Carpobrotus
When I was young my parents tried several times to get the purple flowered one to establish in their garden - mostly cuttings collected during Sunday drives along the Cornish coast but also some from the Devon coast. They grew well and made quite large mats but after a few years a cold winter would kill them and they would try again. Object lesson for the child on the fact that what is hardy at sea level is not hardy 25 miles inland at +600 feet.
Mike
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Re: Carpobrotus
Interestingly a couple of plants from cuttings taken while on holiday in Cornwall have survived this winter (so far) for me.
Joel
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