Pseudolithos cubiformis

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KarlR
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by KarlR »

Lithos wrote:Karl R - The second type flowers are indeed odd. I've never seen anything like them. As mentioned these plants hybridise easily. They bring to mind the long lost, described and never seen again P.horwoodii. It even got a colour photo on the cover of British cactus journal many years ago, I have it somewhere and will try find it for you. Would love to draw it :grin:
I'd be interested to see that. I tried googling P. horwoodii but couldn't find much information on it, although if it's never been seen again after the initial description I suppose that explains why :smile:
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Lithos »

Somehow amongst piles of stuff, and the dead animals that Diane finds offensive, I found the journal I mentioned.

I have photographed the article inside and could post it - not sure if that is legal and would need the Moderators advice.

Pseudolithos horwoodii


Phil
DSCF6682.JPG
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Aiko
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Aiko »

Lithos wrote: I have photographed the article inside and could post it - not sure if that is legal and would need the Moderators advice.
Here it states fifty years: https://www.gov.uk/copyright/overview. Only need to wait ten more years.if you quote the texts. That is about the time it takes to get a Thelocactus hexaedrophorus to flower grown from seed. Very fast for us patient succulent type persons!

For a picture apparently time has passed.
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Lithos »

I seem to upset folks here and have to be carefull what I post. If the mods allow I will post the article, its very interesting. The daft naming of P.Gigas comes to mind.
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Ali Baba
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Ali Baba »

Here's a slightly better image of the front cover I have scanned (no offence to your photo Lithos :grin: )

Image
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KarlR
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by KarlR »

Thanks for the picture, Phil (and Ali Baba :smile: )! Interesting flowers. Does the article state that the flowers appear from the top of the stem? And what does it say about the size of them? The flowers on my weird one are about 2-3 mm in diameter. Very tiny.

I suppose these flowers look slightly more like the weird ones I've got than P. migiurtinus, though it's still not exactly a close resemblance. It would be somewhat of a miracle too, I suppose, if I had got a seed of P. horwoodii in a packet of P. cubiformis from Mesa Garden :grin:

I do probably lean towards this plant being a freak or mutation of some kind, possibly of hybrid origin. I suppose there's always room for human error too, and although I'm 99% sure the flowers are not floral remains, I suppose I can't rule it out completely until I make a point of studying the next buds from they set to they finish flowering. I will update the thread when I have more photos to show of new flowers.

Below are some photos I took today showing the flower remains on the weird plant and also on P. migiurtinus. As you can see (and as both Astro and Lithos suggested) the flowers on the weird plant have a very similar structure to the dried up remains or stalks of P. migiurtinus flowers after the bit with the petals has fallen off. I'm not really sure what the proper terms would be.
The weird Pseudolithos. You can see some of the crystallised liquid on the top of the plant. I don't know whether this is common in Pseudolithos. None of my other plants do this.
The weird Pseudolithos. You can see some of the crystallised liquid on the top of the plant. I don't know whether this is common in Pseudolithos. None of my other plants do this.
Close-up of the crystallised stuff.
Close-up of the crystallised stuff.
Dried up flowers from the above plant.
Dried up flowers from the above plant.
Close-up of the flowers shown above. You can clearly see the crystallised liquid here. I've not seen this on any of the other flowers, nor on the remains.
Close-up of the flowers shown above. You can clearly see the crystallised liquid here. I've not seen this on any of the other flowers, nor on the remains.
The above four photos are all of the weird plant.
P. migiurtinus.
P. migiurtinus.
Close-up of floral remains on P. migiurtinus.
Close-up of floral remains on P. migiurtinus.
The above photo zoomed in a bit further. You can see the floral remains of the stalk here after the bit with the petals has fallen off. This part here looks quite like the flowers of the weird plant in structure, although those two "spikes" that protrude from the stalk (I don't know if those are stigmas/style or something else) lack on the flowers of the weird plant.
The above photo zoomed in a bit further. You can see the floral remains of the stalk here after the bit with the petals has fallen off. This part here looks quite like the flowers of the weird plant in structure, although those two "spikes" that protrude from the stalk (I don't know if those are stigmas/style or something else) lack on the flowers of the weird plant.
Another photo showing floral remains on P. migiurtinus.
Another photo showing floral remains on P. migiurtinus.
Close-up of the above photo.
Close-up of the above photo.
The above five photos are all of P. migiurtinus.
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Ali Baba
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Ali Baba »

I reckon the nectar stuff is dried sap, I dont know about Pseudolithos but my Stapelias all exude clear sap in copious amounts if cut, which dries to a hard crystalline substance. Looking at the photo of the 'miniature flowering' plant Im guessing the floral parts you can see are the calyx, and that something has damaged the flower buds when they were very small causing the buds to abort and exude sap. If it was in my greenhouse I'd suspect a thrips attack!

There's no description of P. horwoodi in the article Im afraid, just a key.
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KarlR
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by KarlR »

Ali Baba wrote:I reckon the nectar stuff is dried sap, I dont know about Pseudolithos but my Stapelias all exude clear sap in copious amounts if cut, which dries to a hard crystalline substance. Looking at the photo of the 'miniature flowering' plant Im guessing the floral parts you can see are the calyx, and that something has damaged the flower buds when they were very small causing the buds to abort and exude sap. If it was in my greenhouse I'd suspect a thrips attack!

There's no description of P. horwoodi in the article Im afraid, just a key.
Interesting theory about something damaging the buds. There aren't and haven't been pests of any kind on the plants though, and certainly not thrips. And the plant has flowered in the same manner several times. But following on from your suggestion, perhaps a virus could be causing this? Would that be possible, that a virus is causing the buds to fail to develop properly?

I believe these tiny flowers must be the calyx of the flower, as you say, and that for some reason they don't develop into proper flowers. To the best of my recollection the flowers on the other Pseudolithos don't start out like this plant. They don't develop calyces that appear to behave like flowers and then go on to grow the petals. The petals and the calyces appear to develop together.

As for the sap, if the buds are damaged in some way I suppose that could explain the sap too, if in normal flowers this sap is still produced, only it's transferred from the lower part of the flower through the calyx to the petal-part.

So, buds that fail to produce petals seems like the most likely solution so far. I'd venture a guess at either a mutation or a virus being to blame. I will rule out physical damage from pests since the plant has flowered like this several times, and I've never spotted any kind of pests on or even anywhere near it.
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by Ali Baba »

I guess the other possiblility is that it is a hybrid that has a genetic mutation that stops it forming flowers.
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Re: Pseudolithos cubiformis

Post by mamuga »

I'm envious!

I have a Pseudolithos migiurtinus since over two years.

I have him always outside.

With good light, but protected from the sun.

Its appearance has always been good.

But it has never bloomed!

What am I doing wrong?

In the following photos you can see that its appearance is always the same:

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April 19, 2013:
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July 7, 2013:
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November 15, 2013:
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May 8, 2014:
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March 21, 2015:
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July 24, 2015:
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Manuel Muñoz-García
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