IainS wrote:"Always watering a plant from the base is the equivalent of just washing your feet and never your body to remove all dead skin flakes and dust that settles on it....."
Superbly put, Dave!
We have a small Mammillaria guelzowiana and that does get a mixture of being alternatively watered from above and below because of its fluffiness!
LOL!
Equivalent? Oh my gosh, I did not know we have roots growing out of our feet and that's how we intake water. Learn something new every day, I guess.
I once made the remark to a speaker who said you should never water cacti from above, but either into the pot or standing the pot in water from below, "it always rains downwards in habitat, never upwards" Rain washes plants from top to bottom in habitat and removes all the accumulated dust from the body something they eventually accumulate in even the cleanest greenhouse. It is not gentle rain in habitat either, but often buckets down when it does come.
There is nothing better in the growing season than standing our plants out in the rain. The only problem is it is impractical when your collection has grown past a certain size moving them in and out of the greenhouse.
Nottingham Branch BCSS. Joined the then NCSS in 1961, Membership number 11944. Cactus only collection.
Watering with a hose is convenient and quick, fine if you're happy with the quality of your tap water, which I am, but what do you do if you want to add fertiliser or an insecticide wash?
On the other hand if you use a watering can, you're forever going back and forth to fill it up.
The answer is this, something that I just bought (but admittedly haven't tried out yet!):
It has a tap/hosepipe connection at the bottom so it fills up using the hosepipe. You can then add whatever additives you want through the hole on the top. Then you use the hosepipe from the bottom to water as normal. Simples. I hope it works
Some really good points made for all styles of watering.
I have been bottom watering using a bucket for large plants and a deep gravel tray for smaller plants, sometimes I am surprised by the number of air bubbles especially when the plants were being watered every week.
I still find it hard to resist watering every day/few days as I would with normal garden perennials during summer.
I do enjoy this method as it gives me a good chance to really 'look' at the plants and check for any issues.
Dave, to be honest, I don't think you gave the speaker to whom you made your remark enough credit, or respect, considering all of the information which should be fully evaluated when comparing a potted plant vs a plant in habitat.
A distinction I will make is that my answer refers specifically to the plants asked about: agave. On that subject, I have a wealth of knowledge and experience, and specifically in regards to pot culture, as opposed to in situ. I'm not implying either that I am ignorant of how these plants survive in the wild. Anyway, I do know quite well how to keep my plants looking their best, and growing optimally, avoiding some pitfalls of expeditious care and maintenance, and in any case, it does not generally include giving them showers for reasons of agave-personal-hygiene every time I water.
Apart from the reasons I already gave for not wanting to water my plants from overhead, and the difference between rainfall in habitat, and overhead watering in cultivation, I should also mention the point of frequency. If you want to pretend that an agave in habitat watered by rainfall is the same thing as watering potted plants overhead, and that makes it perfectly fine, that's just fine with me too. But maybe then, you should also withhold watering for weeks and months, to also mimic the frequency of rainfall in completely natural conditions. Dusty, dirty agave in xeric climes that may not see a drop of water for months on end, is not the same as watering, say weekly a potted plant in a greenhouse. These plants have evolved to endure, if not thrive in conditions which are quite different than typical potted plant culture. Unless we're talking something like Agave attenuatta, ellemeetiana, mitis, etc. in a semi-tropical habitat, the majority of agave species are not tropical, but live in areas where water is available on an infrequent basis. Sometimes, for that matter, water does not come from rainfall either, but in the form of runoff from rain possibly miles away. Therefor, I submit that subjecting them to overhead watering on a semi-frequent basis, as any plant collector is highly likely to do, may not be the best thing for the plant, justified by some notion that they get completely wet anyway in their natural setting when it rains. These plants do stay dry for extended periods in situ, so if I am going to impose my desire for them to grow optimally by watering much more frequently as would be experienced in nature, at least I'm going to keep the rosette dry, unless I feel highly compelled to give the plant a quick clean, if it gets too dusty or dirty for my liking.
If one wants to mimic rainfall and the complete wetting of the plant, then one should also account for every other factor involved as well for the plant's evolved symbiosis with it's environment, including strategies to shed water from the rosette, such as growing on slopes and sideways on rock faces, and even frequency of water, and quality of water.
I think, sometimes there's just no substitute for a visual.
Here's a perfect example of my chief objection with overhead watering. Take one guess which plant pisses me off when I look at it, and which one makes me smile? I'll admit as well that the spotted plant is the fault of no one but myself, for leaving it too near another plant which gets showered every so often (for no other reason than it's a large Zamia furfuracea sitting in a greenhouse heavily frequented by hummingbirds, which perch and deposit "fertilizer" all over it daily).
2 plants, same species/cultivar, roughly the same size. One got "overhead water" (and only incidental, not regular), the other not. The plant on the left I also just tried to rub out the white spotting on the lowermost leaf with a wet thumb, and you can see the result. Not only are the spots still there, but the leaf is also unnaturally shiny as well, the leaf's natural top coat (probably for UV protection) having been wiped off.
A picture is worth a thousand words? Which plant would you choose? I'll take the one on the right, so therefor no overhead watering for me, thank you very much.
It's not a big deal though. In only a year or so, the one on the left will once again look perfect.
Hi Spines & Rosettes.
Has said everything that really needs to be said about Agave growing.
I use a 1 litre watering can, never overhead & like him want my plants to look 'GOOD', they aren't in habitat they are in soggy England but luckily in my greenhouse so will get grown to the best of my ability to look good for me.
I have lost of my plants in trays so water until xs pours out of the plants into the trays, the excess doesn't stay in their long as I put large plants at the back where the water collects.
Many of the variegated agaves have a matt sheen so you don't want them marking as when you try to rub the marks off it's very obvious.
Tina
varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's, Ariocarpus and variegated agaves.
DaveW wrote:The only problem is it is impractical when your collection has grown past a certain size moving them in and out of the greenhouse.
Robinsons have just sent me an email advertising their latest model. They've teamed up with the company who made the Centre Court roof (Wimbledon), so now you can have a greenhouse roof that fully opens up on demand - thus letting the rain in when you want. The only problem for you, Dave, is that it's available in any colour so long as it's green, green, or green.
SpinesandRosettes: You make some good points. But I've just looked at my treasured Agaves and can't see any marks. (Tina: I know you'll want to correct this, but I've only got one variegated Agave - excluding the A. americana cultivars - although I've got three on my short "wanted" list.) I use rain water unless it's used up. Like you, I want the plants to be looking at their best - otherwise it lowers the impact for the reason I have them. Any comments? How are everyone's Agaves looking?
I was speaking about proper plants since I did say cacti. However I now see enough Agave's growing outside in gardens subject to normal rainfall from above these days. As I said, the distinction seems to be between those who try and grow their plants as naturally as possible and the "trophy hunters" who want them for exhibition looking as artificial as poodles in a dog show.
Obviously you don't water over the top with any fertiliser that marks the plants. However when I used to use the hosepipe from the tap I used to use a Miracle Grow feeder on the end of the hose and put most fertilisers in that and never noticed it colouring the wool in the areoles. These feeders are available from most garden centres:-
I bought a Hozelock Water Butt pump so I could use a hose direct from my water butts, but it's picked up a blockage at the moment I cannot find so am having to use a watering can again:-
By the way, I remember who that speaker was and it was Horace Kennewell speaking to us in the 1960's, and in those days his greenhouse had lino tiles on the floor he polished every week, so his plants were more like poodles in a dog show compared to most growers of the time, just lacking the pink ribbons around their necks! That said he grew some very nice plants, but that type of dogmatic bottom watering regime for cacti seemed to largely die out in the 1970's-80's.
Ask yourself if you lived in a better climate than the UK would you still grow your Agave's in a greenhouse? I doubt it, they would be planted out in the garden subject to normal rainfall from above. Watering over the top has nothing to do with frequency of watering either. You only water when the plants need it and give them time to dry out in between watering's. Also I don't usually water in dull periods and have never found watering in full sun caused any problems, or the need for getting the water up to greenhouse temperature first. If you read many accounts of travelling in habitat you often read it was blazing hot then they were soaked with an icy cold rainstorm and not long afterwards the sun blazed down again. Our plants have evolved to stand such conditions, they are not those delicate plants from less harsh climates.
Last edited by DaveW on Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nottingham Branch BCSS. Joined the then NCSS in 1961, Membership number 11944. Cactus only collection.
