I came across this in a link on facebook of all places. I was wondering what everyone else thinks about the finding of a new speices in the Turbinicarpus genus. I haven't been working with them for long enough to have a real opinion about it other than I'm sure I have one that looks just like that hehe.
http://xerophilia.ro/wp-content/uploads ... 0-2015.pdf
Also I'm not sure if it's good or bad news as on one hand I feel like, great they found something new, but on the other hand I feel like, oh no that sounds like trouble. Especially as this is the first time for me that I know what it's like to want something that isn't readily available.
New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
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Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
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New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
Maintain National collections of Copiapoa, Matucana and Turbinicarpus for Chester Zoo
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- Chris43
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
I wouldn't actually say that it's a new species. It is compared with T. pseudomacrochele ssp. minimus. It certainly looks similar, with perhaps larger flowers, less branched stems and denser spines, but the debate should be whether this is another subspecies of T. pseudomacrochele, or whether it is just another form of ssp. mimimus.
Its stated location, near ACtopan, Hidalgo, is only about 19kms from a well known locations for ssp. mimimus.
So, I am somewhat sceptical, and suggest its just an interesting form.
Its stated location, near ACtopan, Hidalgo, is only about 19kms from a well known locations for ssp. mimimus.
So, I am somewhat sceptical, and suggest its just an interesting form.
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
Hi,
Yes, possibly Chris is correct, but we need to know a bit more. However, the authors make it very clear: this new plant has an unclear taxonomic position especially as a revision of the group is, so to speak, in the making. They have preferred to establish a "new species", rather simply mentioning a "new form". I am sure the next few years will bring a new vision of the group.
Cheers,
Eduart
Yes, possibly Chris is correct, but we need to know a bit more. However, the authors make it very clear: this new plant has an unclear taxonomic position especially as a revision of the group is, so to speak, in the making. They have preferred to establish a "new species", rather simply mentioning a "new form". I am sure the next few years will bring a new vision of the group.
Cheers,
Eduart
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
So I guess it really comes down to if you are a lumper or a splitter then!!!
Maybe I worry to much but I have concerns that naming it as a new species potentially makes an already at risk group of plants more vulnerable. And maybe I'm stating the obvious, especially as the article does say that it is considered different enough to be it own species but these kind of variations can occur within species anyway can't they?
I'm not trying to be controversial this is the first new speices that has been found in a group that interests me since I started to work with cactus so I'm just really keen to hear what other people think about it that have more knowledge of these plants than I do. Especially the potential impact on the conservation aspect.
If it is a new species how soon does seed become available, and who is responsible for distribution of seed, seed raising on various continents, and getting it out to on the market ASAP to avoid the potential of taking from habitat?
Also who has the final say over if it's a new species or is it down to personal judgement if you accept it or if you don't?
Maybe I worry to much but I have concerns that naming it as a new species potentially makes an already at risk group of plants more vulnerable. And maybe I'm stating the obvious, especially as the article does say that it is considered different enough to be it own species but these kind of variations can occur within species anyway can't they?
I'm not trying to be controversial this is the first new speices that has been found in a group that interests me since I started to work with cactus so I'm just really keen to hear what other people think about it that have more knowledge of these plants than I do. Especially the potential impact on the conservation aspect.
If it is a new species how soon does seed become available, and who is responsible for distribution of seed, seed raising on various continents, and getting it out to on the market ASAP to avoid the potential of taking from habitat?
Also who has the final say over if it's a new species or is it down to personal judgement if you accept it or if you don't?
Maintain National collections of Copiapoa, Matucana and Turbinicarpus for Chester Zoo
Personal favorites Ferocactus, Astrophytums or anything with a purple or pink colour.
Personal favorites Ferocactus, Astrophytums or anything with a purple or pink colour.
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
Well, I personally don't think so. It has nothing to do with splitting or lumping.JoZoo wrote:So I guess it really comes down to if you are a lumper or a splitter then!!!
Don't forget the botanic authority of the authors, they are not out in the field to spot and sell. They have simply placed a pin on a map. Later on, someone has to analyze all the pins and come to a conclusion. Unfortunately at this stage there are too many unknowns and, hopefully, the discovery of new populations will clear the image.
Not of least importance - we have to understand what we have out there: do not forget these are very plastic populations of plants, disparate and most of the time more than a bee flight away. Time will tell.
Cheers,
Eduart
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
No one, JoZoo. That's the reality of no-one valuing ex-situ conservation as highly as it should be, and the worst offenders are governments advised by professional botanists.JoZoo wrote:If it is a new species how soon does seed become available, and who is responsible for distribution of seed, seed raising on various continents, and getting it out to on the market ASAP to avoid the potential of taking from habitat?
Oh Dear, I'm getting to sound like DaveW!!
Last edited by Chris43 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris, Chinnor, Oxon, UK
Mammillaria enthusiast
BCSS High Wycombe Branch.
http://www.woodedge.me.uk/Home.html
Mammillaria enthusiast
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http://www.woodedge.me.uk/Home.html
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
In the German forum this plants were discussed. They are in Germany from before 2000 and waiting for description (or even hesitating to describe it). Some pictures there to.
http://www.kakteenforum.com/t10418-turb ... p-rs-504-b
Chris
http://www.kakteenforum.com/t10418-turb ... p-rs-504-b
Chris
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
I couldn't see the pictures (I'm not a member of that forum), however, I also couldn't find quickly any data on Turbinicarpus RS 405B (I looked only on Ralph's website). I found instead Coryphantha durangensis RS 405, Viesca, Coahuila, Mexico.
Now, it's my turn to become a bit sceptical - this is the distance between Viesca, Coahuila and Actopan, Hidalgo:
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/dir/Actop ... 453848!3e0
On the road, it is over 1,000 km away.
???
Eduart
Now, it's my turn to become a bit sceptical - this is the distance between Viesca, Coahuila and Actopan, Hidalgo:
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/dir/Actop ... 453848!3e0
On the road, it is over 1,000 km away.
???
Eduart
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
Edouard, its RS504B not RS405B. I transposed them and searched, so went to the forum link and had to register to see the photos.
Chris, Chinnor, Oxon, UK
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Re: New Turbinicarpus speices found!!!
OK, correct! Thank you Chris. Now I see Stefan has transposed the numbers in his post.