So, there I am, wandering along the rows of plants for sale in a cactus seller's greenhouse or a show and I spot a plant that I like and haven't got. That's a nice looking thing I think, I'll buy that.
Given the slap down that John E has just suffered on this forum (Blooming Mae), should I now be carrying a list of illegal plants with me at all times? And should I now check whether a plant is legal before I post a picture of it on this forum?
Illegal plants
Forum rules
For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation, exhibition & science of cacti & other succulents only.
Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation, exhibition & science of cacti & other succulents only.
Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
- Peter
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 2646
- https://www.behance.net/kuchnie-warszawa
- Joined: 22 Mar 2007
- Branch: None
- Country: UK
- Location: Cornwall
- Tina
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 7019
- Joined: 11 Jan 2007
- Branch: NORTHAMPTON & MILTON KEYNES
- Country: England
- Role within the BCSS: Member
- Location: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE
Re: Illegal plants
No,
grow what you want just call it a mammilaria .
There were lots of 'special' one at Elk this weekend, it's where you go to buy them.
I'm impressed with the flowers on John E's plant
grow what you want just call it a mammilaria .
There were lots of 'special' one at Elk this weekend, it's where you go to buy them.
I'm impressed with the flowers on John E's plant
Tina
varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's, Ariocarpus and variegated agaves.
Bucks, UK
Branch co-ordinator, Northants & MK BCSS https://northants.bcss.org.uk
BCSS Talk team member, contact me- BCSS.Talk@Gmail.com if you want to volunteer or suggest a speaker plz.
varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's, Ariocarpus and variegated agaves.
Bucks, UK
Branch co-ordinator, Northants & MK BCSS https://northants.bcss.org.uk
BCSS Talk team member, contact me- BCSS.Talk@Gmail.com if you want to volunteer or suggest a speaker plz.
- Jim_Mercer
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 2239
- Joined: 24 Feb 2011
- Branch: LIVERPOOL
- Country: UK
- Role within the BCSS: Member
- Location: Liverpool
- Contact:
Re: Illegal plants
No and yes - buy what you like but only post pictures of plants allowed by the shows handbook (this has been discussed in the past with regard to what is a succulent plant)Peter wrote: should I now be carrying a list of illegal plants with me at all times? And should I now check whether a plant is legal before I post a picture of it on this forum?
- juster
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: 17 Sep 2013
- Branch: CROYDON
- Country: UK
- Role within the BCSS: Branch Show
- Location: Surrey
Re: Illegal plants
Surely one of the issues here is that an illegal plant has been sold at the National and John E will be able to provide the name of the nursery from which he made his purchase.
At the least, there must be a case for an official letter from the BCSS to the nursery requesting an explanation.
At the least, there must be a case for an official letter from the BCSS to the nursery requesting an explanation.
Croydon Branch member, growing mainly cacti and Echeverias
-
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 224
- Joined: 11 Aug 2015
- Branch: None
- Country: UK
- Role within the BCSS: Member
Re: Illegal plants
Being relatively new to succulents the majority of my collection is agave and echeveria.
Both are Mexican plants. How do I know as a collector, that the plants I purchase are not derived from illegally collected material? Be it seed or vegetative propagation. Especially if these plants may have been for sale at the BCSS show and sale, where I purchased a number of large plants.
Both are Mexican plants. How do I know as a collector, that the plants I purchase are not derived from illegally collected material? Be it seed or vegetative propagation. Especially if these plants may have been for sale at the BCSS show and sale, where I purchased a number of large plants.
Re: Illegal plants
I inadvertently started the topic about illegal plants by putting a picture on the forum of a plant that surprised me by flowering just a short time after I had purchased it because I thought that other enthusiasts would enjoy the picture. To call the plant purchased at the National Show a trophy is possibly the stupidest thing I have heard in over 50 years of being an enthusiast in the hobby. Pathetic in fact.
I have been growing C & S since 1968. A lot of my plants were imports in the early 1970s. I am a Crawley branch member sometimes!
Re: Illegal plants
My simple mind is wondering how all this works
What if a plant, or its offspring, in my collection was brought back from Mexico prior to this legislation (1997?) perhaps by a Victorian or even earlier traveller/explorer/botanist?
What if a plant, or its offspring, in my collection was brought back from Mexico prior to this legislation (1997?) perhaps by a Victorian or even earlier traveller/explorer/botanist?
- Chris43
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 2574
- Joined: 11 Jan 2007
- Branch: HIGH WYCOMBE
- Country: United Kingdom
- Role within the BCSS: Branch Vice Chair
Re: Illegal plants
The simple answer is that you are most unlikely to know where your plant material originated, unless it is a new plant whose description was published after the '97 ban.
A plant might have a field collection number, in which case you can check with Ralph's field number database when that field collection took place.
This "illegal" trade is the result of punitive laws which discourage almost any form of ex-situ conservation and trade development in the country of origin.
What is better in conservation terms - mass plundering to extinction by unscrupulous collectors? or the "illegal" collection of a few plants which are then propagated by modern means to create thousands of plants in a short time?
Obviously there is a third alternative - leave them where they are. You might as well say don't grow your population, build new houses, roads, farms, factories.......
A plant might have a field collection number, in which case you can check with Ralph's field number database when that field collection took place.
This "illegal" trade is the result of punitive laws which discourage almost any form of ex-situ conservation and trade development in the country of origin.
What is better in conservation terms - mass plundering to extinction by unscrupulous collectors? or the "illegal" collection of a few plants which are then propagated by modern means to create thousands of plants in a short time?
Obviously there is a third alternative - leave them where they are. You might as well say don't grow your population, build new houses, roads, farms, factories.......
Chris, Chinnor, Oxon, UK
Mammillaria enthusiast
BCSS High Wycombe Branch.
http://www.woodedge.me.uk/Home.html
Mammillaria enthusiast
BCSS High Wycombe Branch.
http://www.woodedge.me.uk/Home.html
Re: Illegal plants
The rule of thumb is any plant described or discovered in Mexico since 1997 is unlikly to have been issued permits for any form of commercial trade so unless the seller can produce evidence to the contrary then it should be considered illegal.
I do find it amusing though that so many are happy to acquire these plants despite knowing that they are effectively stolen but would be up in arms if one of their own plants was stolen and was then acquired by another grower who brought it knowing it was acquired illegally but if you happy to collect on that basis, carry on just don't come displaying them on the forum.
If anyone wishes to raise the matter of the sale of these plants etc with the trustees then I suggest you write or email the society secretary.
You may think my comment stupid John but I can't see any reason for wanting to either be the first to own a new species and consequently pay a price far beyond its true value or knowingly purchasing plants that have been illegally collected other than trophy collecting!
I totaly agree Chris, proper controlled and sustainable exploitation of natural resources is right way, blanket bans only result in a black market, driven money and greed.
I do find it amusing though that so many are happy to acquire these plants despite knowing that they are effectively stolen but would be up in arms if one of their own plants was stolen and was then acquired by another grower who brought it knowing it was acquired illegally but if you happy to collect on that basis, carry on just don't come displaying them on the forum.
If anyone wishes to raise the matter of the sale of these plants etc with the trustees then I suggest you write or email the society secretary.
You may think my comment stupid John but I can't see any reason for wanting to either be the first to own a new species and consequently pay a price far beyond its true value or knowingly purchasing plants that have been illegally collected other than trophy collecting!
I totaly agree Chris, proper controlled and sustainable exploitation of natural resources is right way, blanket bans only result in a black market, driven money and greed.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Haworthiad Editor
Mainly Haworthia and Gasteria, a few other South African succulents and the odd spiky thing.
Haworthiad Editor
Mainly Haworthia and Gasteria, a few other South African succulents and the odd spiky thing.
Re: Illegal plants
Is there a list of illegal plants? How do we discover this?