Mammillaria id

[Vicky]

The seeds were purchased as Mammillaria lasiacantha, we had good germination however as they've grown I've become more doubtful that they are lasiacantha due to the spination. Does anyone have any thoughts to what they may be?

Many thanks

Vicky

[Rob]

Looking great little plant Vicky.
Maybe M.magallanii??
Hopefully Chris43 will be along soon to put me right.....

[Chris43]

No need, Rob.....
There's quite some variation in the density of the spines on your seedlings, Vicky, but I think you should be OK with M. lasiacantha as the name.
M. magallani is reckoned by botanists to fall within the range of variation of M.lasiacantha, though some prefer to keep it separate. It is a more open spined plant and usually has lighter coloured flowers.
Of course you don't know the parentage of the seed, but looking at what has germinated, I'd be thinking that the two parents were a "normal" M. lasiacantha and maybe a M. magallani looking plant.

[Tony R]

Very nice seedlings too, Vicky!

[rodsmith]

Very nice seedlings too, Vicky!

I agree. I love to see flowers on young seedlings.

[Terry S.]

I wonder if these seedlings could actually be Mammillaria giselae? They look very similar to youngsters raised from my adult plant and they flower at a cm or so across.

Incidentally do our mamillaria cognoscenti believe that giselae is anything to do with schiedeana under which it is usually placed as a subspecies? Flower and flowering period are quite different.

[Tony R]

That thought did strike me too, Terry, but I thought the flower colour was too white rather than pink for that.
Yes, my preference is to call M. giselae a 'good' species.

[Vicky]

Thank you for the suggestions so far.

The flower colour is very variable across the seedlings. This photo was taken this evening and I did have to use the flash.

The seedlings are about 3 yrs old and are showing no signs of clustering, I seem to remember the giselae I've grown from seed started clustering whilst still quite young.

Most of them will be looking for homes shortly, which is partly why I'm trying to get a name for them.

[Cidermanrolls]

Feel free to shoot me down in flames, but.....
Does anyone else feel that much seed in commerce today is subject to hybridisation?
What I, perhaps niaively, see there is a tray if F2 or more accurately Fx hybrids.
We happily accept that Astrophytums are massively hybridised. Why not Mamms?

[Chris43]

Having seen that second photo Vicky, I have to retract my agreement to them being of the M. lasiacantha fraternity. M. giselae does seems closer, especially for those larger and much more open plants, and the flowers match the funnel-campanulate description.

I don't know if its placement as a subspecies of M. schiedeana is right. I can't find the original description, which was in KuaS 49 (8) 1998. It doesn't obviously fit to my mind, and it is over 300kms from where M. schiedeana ssp. dumetorum occurs.

I had two clones of this plant in 1999, one of which looked much as we know the plant today, with pink flowers and tight yellowish spines, and the other with much denser spines, paler, and a flower that was almost white. They came to me grafted as Clones D & E. I have seen the plant Clone D mentioned as M. giselae v. albiflora. I contacted Sn. Alvarez-Martinez who was one of the plants discoverers and asked about the variability. He replied saying that in habitat one can find a significant range of variability and they were quite mixed within populations, not from one population to another. He would not therefore consider having any subspecies or variety, or even form names given to these paler plants.

A good photo of these paler plants can be found at http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/MAMMIL ... iflora.htm and the extreme examples almost look like M. carmenae

So it would seem that some variability is to be expected, as it seems inherent in the species.

The question of the purity of seed is a significant one. Since the ban by Mexico on exportation of both seed and plants, the strains in circulation of plants even with collection numbers or defined locations cannot be guaranteed. When one buys seed you just don't know how isolated the plants are that have created the seed, and whether the fertilisation process has been compromised in some way.