Payment for Talks  Solved

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brianc
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by brianc »

I think we are looking at this topic the wrong way, we need to look inwards abit more.
As treasurer of chelmsford branch and a member for 30 years i have come to the conclusion that the general
membership can not be bothered to turn out, we have around 30 members attached to our branch which we
send out every month an email to informing them of the speakers and any club news.
We have about 8 active members who turn up most meetings and 2 friends from clacton branch who attend
when possible, we have managed to survive like this for many years now god knows how? when we have managed
to get a reply as to why people do not attend meetings we get the same old reasons dark nights too old can not
be bothered, but some have replied that they would like to have more meetings about growing plants seed raising
grafting etc . How do you get a happy medium? some people want travel stories some do not.
This year we are having afew of the more experienced growers giving talks on how they grow certain plants lets
hope we can encourage a few more members to turn up .
Just a mention of the effort chelmsford branch are putting in at Hyde Hall to bring our plants to the attention
of the public we are putting on 3 displays this year.
Dick Rolfe our chairman is the man to thank for all the effort he has put into these events.
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DaveW
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Re: Payment for Talks  Solved

Post by DaveW »

I think you are misunderstanding what I meant Terry, like it or not unless speakers are subsidised in some form either by the Society or a Local Authority grant for running a branch, it will always come down to the cost of the speakers talk, therefore "market forces" do apply even in our hobby. If a branch cannot afford a speakers fee they will not book the speaker, how good a value for that fee the speaker is would then be irrelevant since they are just not affordable on that occasion. That may in fact mean some speakers may only be afforded by more prosperous branches, or a less prosperous branch may only be able to afford one outside speaker each year, if that.

As I mentioned Women's Institutes paying quite high speakers fees I looked up on the web what they were being charged and evidently not all their branches are as wealthy since one stated if speakers were charging £50-£90 plus travel costs they could only afford one outside speaker per year. Looking at our Branch programme this year we have seven expenses paid outside speakers. Obviously with branch finances being what they are it is simple economics if speakers fees go up, plus room rents etc and takings remain the same the number of charging outside speakers would have to go down.

Everything comes down to finances in the end Terry, we have to live in the real world. If the branch cannot afford the fee no matter how reasonable that may be they will not book the speaker, or book less speakers per year to cut the annual cost of speakers. If the speakers cannot (or do not want to) produce a talk for what most branches can afford then the use of outside speakers will simply die out.

Branches too are caught between a "rock and a hard place". If they put up the meeting fees to pay for increased speakers charges they often loose members, which means those charges are then spread over even fewer attendees at branch meetings, meaning meeting fees would need to go up even more. Also as we all don't grow the same plants, therefore have the same interests, if meeting charges go up members become even more discriminating as to what meetings they attend and will stay away if it is a speaker on a subject that does not interest them.

Like it of not it all comes down to branch finances and therefore money in the end. The Law of Diminishing Returns also applies. Sometimes putting up either Society subscriptions or branch meeting fees does not result in increased funds since the number of members you loose outweighs the increase in the subscription or meeting charge.
Werewolf
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by Werewolf »

According to recent findings in our Society's dealings with the RHS and its affiliates, the BCSS is very much one of the more successful of the surviving specialist horticultural societies, so it would appear our culture is not too much of an issue. It does, however, concern me that branches have to be entirely self funding and none of our members' subscription fees goes towards running what should be our biggest assets.

Speaking was something that happened by accident when I put a talk together at short notice to fill in when the originally booked speaker was unable to deliver because of a health issue. I now give up to a dozen talks a year to help other branches and, as others have said, it's nice to get out there and meet people. I do not own my own equipment but rely on the branches to provide it (or hire my branch's projector) and charge only travel expenses, with which I am entirely happy, even when I have to take (unpaid) time off work in order to accommodate the travel. At most meetings, I sell a few surplus plants and anything made from this is a bonus.

I have booked many speakers over the years, including some eminent names within the hobby for Zone conventions, and almost all only charge expenses. The few exceptions are those that consider speaking part of their profession and they have always charged us a reduced rate. Most BCSS speakers are hobbyist growers or amateur explorers and we tend to learn much of the content for our talks from others more eminent than ourselves, normally embellishing this knowledge with our own experiences and views, so I think it probably correct that there is no charge.

As a Branch Chairman and Zone Rep, I attend all but two meetings without any travel costs, which I think is the norm for all the Society's volunteer officials. This enables branch and zone committee meetings, public displays and competitive shows to remain viable. There is, incidentally, no branch within an hour of where I live (Hastings), so even attending my own branch comes at a cost. The two meetings for which I claim expenses are the Society AGM and the Zone Reps' AGM, which again is the norm for these events because of their significance within the Society structure and the distances involved.

As a judge, like all others, I have to pay all my own costs to attend the Judges' Course (£160 plus travel to Northampton). This can never be recovered against any bookings, for which only travel expenses are charged. The weekend, however, is a great learning and hugely enjoyable social experience, so the cost is actually more akin to that of a long weekend away than an overhead. To pay Judges' Course speakers would only add to the cost and potentially reduce the number of qualified judges. The course itself, like the National Show, the BCSS International Convention, the AGM, Zone Conventions and Zone and Branch Shows, is of course run by unpaid volunteers.

The point of all this is that the BCSS runs on goodwill and introducing an internal market of costs and charges would be an enormous culture shock that would necessitate change to the entire funding structure, undoubtedly putting the Society's continued existence at risk. The costs of the halls alone are already crippling for many branches.

It is, of course, nice - some would say essential - to be appreciated. It is fair to say that some branches and their folk are much more hospitable than others. Personal experiences range from very welcome meals (it must be remembered that these are also provided without claiming by volunteers and that time and work constraints make such offers impossible for many officials) and enjoyable greenhouse visits with local officials to one branch that didn't even offer a vote of thanks, the chairman ending the meeting with, "OK, thank you, can anyone remember who we've got next month?" Most branches offer a warm welcome and a hot drink on arrival.

My view is that we're all in this together from choice and the best way forward is to work together and appreciate each other.

Graham Evans
Zone 12 Rep
Chairman Brighton Branch
makleodss
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by makleodss »

Actually When I first attended branch meeting I expected much bigger attendance. Thing is that now I am visiting 3 branches and usually there are about 10 members or liitle bit more at maximum. In my opinion speakers should be payed and branch meetings reorganised. I have been on zone rally which actually was much closer to that what I expected at my first branch meeting. I would prefer less meeting days but longer day with 2-3 talks with plant sales, book sales and opportunity to meet more people with same interests. Young people are quite busy so if events are rare but with more value I presume more young members would find it worth to visit events similar to zone rally through a year. In that case event can be advertised in press or social media to attract more people. I already miss more than half of meetings through a year due to my work and I do not find it fancy to use a holiday for 2-3 hour meeting but if event is bigger and regular I would gladly plan free time for visiting. even addmission charge would not stop me.
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BrianMc
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by BrianMc »

makleodss wrote:Actually When I first attended branch meeting I expected much bigger attendance.
... I have been on zone rally which actually was much closer to that what I expected at my first branch meeting. I would prefer less meeting days but longer day with 2-3 talks with plant sales, book sales and opportunity to meet more people with same interests.......
A valuable point made, which might be the best way forward.

We are all spoiled for choice these days.
As has been quoted in various places, club meetings on the whole (c&s and non-c&s) seem to be losing favour. We have to face the fact that in the world today there are so many distractions and there is so much information available at the touch of a button, that attending meetings for many takes too much effort.
The late Alan Hart told me of his early interest in the hobby and the lengths he had to go to in order to attend meetings and further his hobby, when he was newly married in the 50's. This was before Alan helped set up the Mid Cheshire Branch in Hartford and his nearest branch I believe was Warrington. At first he used to take the bus to travel to meetings in the next town, but would need to leave early to get the last bus home. Later he would cycle to a friends house, leave his bike and borrow his friends car to get to the meetings, allowing him to stay until the end. Obviously times change. TV and home entertainment has changed drastically over the years, so an evening's entertainment can be achieved without leaving the house.
Attending meetings was at one time a very important way of boosting your collection with new plants, but I have found this to be diminishing these days. Lets face it, there are more people going on continental coach trips than ever. The number of UK growers going to ELK seems to grow year on year, not to mention the way that Cactus Marts are prospering in many regions. I am not knocking this, but it is inevitable that eventually, without a massive influx of newcomers who stick with the hobby, we will reach saturation point with the number of consumers and the amount of supply.
Focussing all the positive events mentioned by makleodss and combing branches could allow for the interest to be sustained and give the event more pulling power to elevate it above the sea of other entertainment options.


Sorry if I drifted a bit from the initial theme started by Terry, but perhaps to bring it back a bit, I have to say I have always felt welcomed at the BCSS meetings I have spoken at. Some were much warmer and friendlier than others, but I have never been snubbed. Having said that I have only visited a fraction of the branches.
I once gave a talk a good distance away and was fed and put up overnight, but offered no travel expenses. I was too embarrassed to ask. It may have been an oversight on the branch's part, we will never know. However, I decided that I would not speak there again. Which is a shame as the talk went down very well.
I have also travelled 4.5 hours to give a talk which was attended by 4 people then made the journey home the same day. The people were lovely and I was given my expenses, but there comes a point, as a speaker, that you have to wonder if it is worth your effort.
A couple of years ago I gave a talk to a Gardening club just across Glasgow from where I stay. They pay all their speakers and I was given a set fee of £40, which was very nice. That meeting had around 80 members present. If only BCSS meetings could be like that. I suppose a critical mass of membership needs to be achieved to be able to attract varied speakers to talk and encourage members to attend.
Especially interested in Mesembs. small Aloes and South African miniatures and bulbs.
Keen propagator and compulsive 'tickler'!
Instagram #myscottishgreenhouse
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DaveW
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by DaveW »

Yes times change, but most of us seemingly do not. In the days before universal TV and family cars, just after the war before I joined Nottingham branch I was told that half an hour before our then three day annual show opened there used to be a queue of people waiting right around the block in the centre of the city, just as for cinema's on a Saturday night. I doubt most of you are old enough to remember when you had to wait for half an hour or more in a queue to get into a cinema Saturday night, because that was about the only entertainment in the town other than the pub in those days. People also had to use public transport because they did not have family cars, therefore the local town was usually the furthest they went for entertainment. There were also over 4000 members in this society when I joined in 1961.

The general population is very different these days since they are mobile and using their own cars to go further afield for more sophisticated entertainment, because taking their girlfriend or wife to a local cactus show for a day out hardly impresses them anymore. Also there are many more types of hobbies available and gardeners and hence greenhouses are disappearing since new houses usually only have postage stamp sized gardens, because any property now with any land is liable to have another property built in what used to be it's garden.

Our branch at one time had over 100 members in the 1960's, we now get about 15-16 to a meeting which I understand is pretty good for most branches? The cost of rooms near cities is ever rising and our last venue we had to vacate since the church property itself was due to be sold off, demolished and redeveloped since they were combining three congregations in another church because fewer people go to church anymore.

The cost of halls for conventions etc also continues to rise due to increased competition since industry has suddenly decided it wants to hire them for bonding sessions or seminars, something British industry seems to have imported from the USA and companies have deeper pockets for hall hire than we have and can probably set it off against tax.

It's no good therefore pretending branches can afford speakers fees that maybe some other societies or business's can. We have to live in the real world and within our own means. If speakers fees inevitably go up, then either branches will have to put up their meeting fees and risk losing members, or them only coming when the speaker interests them, meaning they make less per year by increasing meeting fees than they do at present levels. With many branches their first priority is paying for the hire of their room, not for outside speakers, because without the former there is no demand for the latter.

Whether and how many outside speakers can be afforded a year is based on branch finances. Do they have to rely on meeting fees or do they have other sources of income such as shows? We gave up our annual show decades ago as after organising our last three day show with all the members giving their time and effort, in spite of being in the geographic centre of a busy city we made £8 profit from it, which was certainly not worth the effort.

We then found a major local agricultural show was more lucrative particularly through selling plants there. However as the local collieries shut around it their takings and visitors fell until it too closed a year or two ago. Areas vary, it is pointless people in more prosperous areas pretending their money making schemes can simply be transposed to other poorer areas. Thankfully there does seem to have been a bit of a resurgence in branch members just lately, but again no real youngsters. It is still a case since I joined in 1961 both Society branches in numbers and attendances have declined and so has the Society from it's 4000+ membership peak.

We have to realise we are now competing with free Journals on the Internet of equal quality to our own and who knows what else may be provided free on there in future. The only advantage over the web the Society has left in it's favour on a monthly basis is it's local branches. Even this web based Forum is free to all, though membership of our Society still requires a subscription. Therefore BCSS members are subsidising it for others. Even the press have found when you transfer to the Internet it is virtually impossible to get the majority of the public to pay for anything online which they were quite happy to previously pay for in printed form.

As said before, everything comes down to money in the end. Branches will book the speakers they can afford and also decide how many per year they can book. Also speakers will decide how much they want to charge and if they miscalculate the amount and demand, simply not receive many bookings. Whether life is fair is irrelevant, life is what it is and you have to live with the prevailing situation and decide if you want to take part or not.
topsy
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Re: Payment for Talks

Post by topsy »

Hi All,

I have resisted adding my fourpenny's worth so far but feel that there is still some useful information which from a speaker's viewpoint, could be useful.

It would be useful to know the average attendance at a branch meeting at the time of being booked to give a talk. I know it is a question which can be asked at the time, but isn't always.

It would also be useful to know whether a branch charges a fee for the evening and what this covers - refreshments/raffle +? My own branch still does not charge a fee, just the 50p for refreshments and whatever the treasurer can extract with or without menaces for raffle tickets. Our funds are further increased from seed sales, and donated hobby items (books, journals) and our plant auction following our AGM, which over the last three or four years has exceeded £300 each time.

As others have said the payback for taking the time to travel to a branch and give a talk is being able to see other peoples' collections and to be invited into their home for a meal and relaxation after a lengthy journey.

Our speakers are not only very modest in their travelling expenses but if they are selling plants these are also modestly priced for the most part. Nurserymen's prices are usually undercut as overheads are very much lower, but if you have taken note of the prices being realised on auctions on-line this may not continue. Speakers also offer plants which may well not be available elsewhere.

Having been in favour of "star" rating the branches I now wonder if it would do more harm than good. After all word soon gets around if a branch isn't that good at its hospitality or reception, and many branches are teetering on the brink and to get a black star rather than a gold star may be the final straw. Also were this to be introduced for branches then I think it would be only fair for the same yardstick to be used to measure the speakers!

Suzanne Mace
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