Solufeed

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DaveW
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Re: Solufeed

Post by DaveW »

I'm no chemist so it's simply what I have read, which is that Ureic nitrogen needs to be broken down by bacteria that inhabit moist soils and with cacti we allow the soil to dry out between watering's so killing or depleting these bacteria, meaning Ureic nitrogen is usually not easily available to plants that inhabit dry soils? With fertilisers intended for normal plants I believe a lot of the nitrogen claimed is in this form, so largely unavailable to cacti? Is this true?

A quote from Phil's link:-

"Ureic nitrogen (Ureic-N) has to be converted to ammoniacal nitrogen (and on the nitrate nitrogen) by bacterial activity before it can be utilised by the plant. There can be some losses in this process, e.g. volatilisation to the atmosphere, depending on the environmental conditions. The speed of this conversion is also dependent upon environmental conditions. For this reason urea is sometimes referred to as a "slow release" form of nitrogen."

See also:-

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/11 ... tudy-shows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxPneEydZg
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Peter
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Re: Solufeed

Post by Peter »

Tony: that's an excellent link. Having dealt with Solufeed I'm impressed. They seem to be a long established plant food company that knows it's stuff, selling products at fair prices and with 48 hour free delivery. Can't understand why I've not come across them before.

I shall be using their balanced feed for the first time just as soon as the current heatwave finishes.
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Re: Solufeed

Post by BruceM »

Hello Peter, personally I think it is good to experiment with your set up. Part of the problem is different plants have different tolerance and preferences for watering and feeding schedules, perhaps why we have a lack of consensus? For example, I find Pachanoi, Scopulicola etc can take very frequent feeding and watering and benefit greatly.

Along with people having very different opinions on how plants "should" look. Like lophophora, some likes the "pampered balloon" look, others the more "natural" flatter look.

As for the ratio, I use a 8:8:6 with a good complement of micro and macro nutrients. I also use Vitax seaweed extract. If you are worried about weak growth, I would recommend a horsetail extract (as a foliar feed). Not sure if foliar feed is something you would want to do on a weekly basis with the scale of your collection? Silica helps the plant build stronger cell walls etc. It also has a range of other benefits, see link below and go to "role of silica in stress relief" it is a worthwhile addition in any case.

https://academic.oup.com/aob/article/100/7/1383/216204
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D^L
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Re: Solufeed

Post by D^L »

D^L wrote:
I have always assumed that there is supposed to be solid feed in the container. The water here is then at a known constant concentration - it is saturated.
The mechanism then allows the appropriate, small flow rate out of the container to mix with the main flow and give the required concentration.

Ralph Wrote
That's never going to work, as eventually enough will be used up that it is no longer saturated. Indeed, you can see the colour fade as you use it up.

So we agree it does work, or nearly so, while there are significant is solids in the container. If you mean that after a time it is used up and the concentration drops - I agree.
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Re: Solufeed

Post by ralphrmartin »

D^L wrote:D^L wrote:
Ralph Wrote
That's never going to work, as eventually enough will be used up that it is no longer saturated. Indeed, you can see the colour fade as you use it up.

So we agree it does work, or nearly so, while there are significant is solids in the container. If you mean that after a time it is used up and the concentration drops - I agree.
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David Lambie
As some ions will be more soluble than others, your theory would result in very different feed mixes at the start of watering to later - you'd get a solution which depended on ion solubility, rather than the proportions in the fertiliser, at the start of watering, which surely wouldn't be right?
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gerald
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Re: Solufeed

Post by gerald »

I've been using Solufeed products for other plants for a while now, their salts are usually chelated which is a much better form for root adsorption than otherwise.

Dave I'm not so sure about the interaction of soil bacteria (and indeed mycorrhizal fungi) with cactus roots. With 'normal' plants there is a great deal of symbiotic interaction, so much so that the bacteria and fungi are actually responsible for the breakdown and supply of nutrients, without which the plant would suffer.

Despite the arid conditions in which cacti live, I'd be surprised if there was no reliance on bacteria or fungi at all.
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DaveW
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Re: Solufeed

Post by DaveW »

It has been published below that some bacteria associated with cactus roots can dissolve rocks and make nutrients available to them, therefore these obviously exist in dry conditions. But whether these are the same that break down Urea fertilisers in normal moist soils I do not know?

See:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_ne ... 209687.stm

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/journals ... nte001.pdf

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/959f/4 ... c742c4.pdf

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/journals ... nte001.pdf

"In one of the studies, soil and cactus rhizospheric microbial communities were surveyed using culture independent techniques and it was discovered that microbial communities were shaped mainly by soil properties from different geographical locations followed by the cactus rhizosphere"

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... Aqeex_e4-5

One wonders therefore whether these bacteria are universal in all terrestrial cacti and if so if cacti growing in purely mineral mixes, which seems to be the present fad, can do the same to the minerals they are growing in without the need for additional fertilisation? Of course compared to fertilisation this may slow growth down to habitat rather than cultivated speeds.

Not just the Cerei either, these bacteria have also been found in some Mammillarias:-

http://www.bashanfoundation.org/gmaweb/ ... ilaria.pdf
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Re: Solufeed

Post by Terry S. »

Basically we have no idea as to whether the soil bacteria needed to convert urea to nitrate and ammonium ions are present in our compost mixes. Most of us use sterilized composts so the required bacteria are certainly not present on initial potting or seed-sowing, although some might have got carried over from earlier potting mixes. Those of you who use inert mineral composts (pumice or moler) are even less likely to have the bacteria present. Furthermore the alternating moist and dry conditions that we tend to have in our pots is not conducive to bacterial development. Therefore I err on the cautious side and use liquid feeds that are not urea-based (Phostrogen is the chief culprit for having urea as the nitrogen source). Do not confuse mycorrhizal fungi with the urea-converting bacteria.
You haven't told us what Solufeed has as its nitrogen source.
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Re: Solufeed

Post by Tony R »

Terry S. wrote:You haven't told us what Solufeed has as its nitrogen source.
All 3 main sources of nitrogen:
Image1.jpg
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Re: Solufeed

Post by gerald »

Terry, I think you'd be surprised at the resilience and ubiquity of bacteria. True sterility can only be achieved through an autoclave, chemical action etc - and once the process has finished, bacterial colonization begins again almost immediately. I don't doubt there will be lesser amounts of bacteria and fungi on 'sterilised soil' or bare rock, but there will certainly be enough for them to rise up again once conditions are appropriate.
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