Cactus seed payment

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Paul D
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by Paul D » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:26 pm

el48tel wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:16 pm
Paul D wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:06 pm
There are ways to automate paypal payments using e.g. Actinic or other webshop software, and integration of this with membership databases, removing most of the legwork. Getting a system like that is expensive but is the way forward. Less human error in matching up, not more! Most people don't use cheques any more, and lots of banks are stopping them- my own one no longer guarantees payment.
Also It is a 16 mile round trip for me to post a cheque.
Banks would like to think that they will stop cheques but that will not happen. Banks forget that customers walk.
As for paying in cheques .... many banks are entering arrangements with the Post Office. Lose the Post Office and lose the village ... and I speak with experience.
Both local post offices (2 miles away and 5 miles away) closed when the post office was sold off. It's the same trip as for banks. The same as for a lot of people in rural areas electronic is so much easier.
Paul in North-east Scotland (Grampian Branch BCSS)
National Collection Aylostera, Rebutia & Weingartia (inc. Sulcorebutia). Also growing a mixture including Ferocactus, Gymnocalycium, Mammillaria, Asclepiads, Lithops, Crassula, Adromischus, Gasteria, Haworthia.
http://www.rebutia.org.uk
Stevium
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by Stevium » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:12 am

Reading the replies with interest.

Although I live in Glasgow and I do have a post office nearby, the issue is that I work hours that do not complement the opening hours of my local post office. I'm off for the holiday period at the moment and the post office is shut for the duration (!). I'll be able to get a postal order on the first or second weekend in the new year - I just hope that's not too late. That is the reason I would personally prefer to pay online, as I do for most things.
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el48tel
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by el48tel » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:06 pm

Paul D wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:26 pm
el48tel wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:16 pm
Paul D wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:06 pm
There are ways to automate paypal payments using e.g. Actinic or other webshop software, and integration of this with membership databases, removing most of the legwork. Getting a system like that is expensive but is the way forward. Less human error in matching up, not more! Most people don't use cheques any more, and lots of banks are stopping them- my own one no longer guarantees payment.
Also It is a 16 mile round trip for me to post a cheque.
Banks would like to think that they will stop cheques but that will not happen. Banks forget that customers walk.
As for paying in cheques .... many banks are entering arrangements with the Post Office. Lose the Post Office and lose the village ... and I speak with experience.
Both local post offices (2 miles away and 5 miles away) closed when the post office was sold off. It's the same trip as for banks. The same as for a lot of people in rural areas electronic is so much easier.
Point taken!
Continuing a journey of discovery as I grow cactus seeds and offsets, and discover all kinds of wonderful plants in Cactus Nurseries. Just love Echinopsis, Lithops, Aeoniums and Gymnocalycium .... and....and .... now discovering Rebutia (thought I'd never bother having lost one a winter ago) and Sulcorebutia and Aylostera .... from where did those Echinocereus plants arrive?
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ragamala
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by ragamala » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:55 pm

I read the posts here with interest. As a rejoiner after a couple of decades, I was frankly surprised that the seed distribution and payment system remained basically unchanged. Our Chairman, although I admit I did not read a pre-election manifesto, has since said, rightly, to paraphrase, he hopes his tenure will help boost the Society and propel it further into the 21st century through new initiatives.

There are two grouches I have seen expressed. Firstly the perceived unfairness of a seed-ordering system which requires receipt of the journal, followed by a postal order application, resulting in inequality of opportunity (on the assumption that folks who order first get served first - but is that wrong?).

The second linked but different issue is the matter of the post here. I have not used a cheque in years. Cheques are past their sell-by date. But if you agree, the argument for accepting payment by post office order is even more antediluvian.

Things have to change. The solution is not difficult, as been suggested here. A digital web-based solution. What IS needed though is new and younger input. I have the utmost respect for those whose names are familiar to me from decades ago and have gave unstintingly to this and related societies. We need younger members who have the energy and tech-savvy to come forward and offer assistance to those of us from the older generation.
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el48tel
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by el48tel » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:43 pm

ragamala wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:55 pm
I read the posts here with interest. As a rejoiner after a couple of decades, I was frankly surprised that the seed distribution and payment system remained basically unchanged. Our Chairman, although I admit I did not read a pre-election manifesto, has since said, rightly, to paraphrase, he hopes his tenure will help boost the Society and propel it further into the 21st century through new initiatives.

There are two grouches I have seen expressed. Firstly the perceived unfairness of a seed-ordering system which requires receipt of the journal, followed by a postal order application, resulting in inequality of opportunity (on the assumption that folks who order first get served first - but is that wrong?).

The second linked but different issue is the matter of the post here. I have not used a cheque in years. Cheques are past their sell-by date. But if you agree, the argument for accepting payment by post office order is even more antediluvian.

Things have to change. The solution is not difficult, as been suggested here. A digital web-based solution. What IS needed though is new and younger input. I have the utmost respect for those whose names are familiar to me from decades ago and have gave unstintingly to this and related societies. We need younger members who have the energy and tech-savvy to come forward and offer assistance to those of us from the older generation.
As a new member of less than one cycle I cannot comment on the seed distribution protocols and procedures but since the process is entirely staffed by volunteers rather than paid-hands one has to take on-board that it may be the only way forward short of a total overhaul of the administration system and a costly (since IT based systems of the size about which we talk here ARE costly) system. Another organisation to which I belong and which several correspondents here have bantered incorrectly as being antediluvian, has increased its subscription rate to "silly" proportions because it now employs about 20 staff rather than the two I remember in the 80s to service a membership which has grown from merely from 10000 to 11000 - and of course not just the one, but now this year two execs on £160k+.

If you want to reduce the UK un-employment rate and rent a building in which to house them, it is OK by me but I won't stay a member for long (my membership of the other organisation may terminate in a couple of weeks time once I've done my annual budget).

As for cheques --- I use them all of the time and for some organisations is still the norm.

As for younger members I agree whole-heartedly that we need the next generation of membership and that applies to ANY organisation.

As for tech-savvy (and I've been using IT systems on-and-off since the mid 60s) --- "baby and bath-water" would be my caveat.
Continuing a journey of discovery as I grow cactus seeds and offsets, and discover all kinds of wonderful plants in Cactus Nurseries. Just love Echinopsis, Lithops, Aeoniums and Gymnocalycium .... and....and .... now discovering Rebutia (thought I'd never bother having lost one a winter ago) and Sulcorebutia and Aylostera .... from where did those Echinocereus plants arrive?
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Tina
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by Tina » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:39 pm

perceived unfairness of a seed-ordering system which requires receipt of the journal
no this is incorrect, the list is put online so everyone can process their order without waiting for the journal.

Re the ordering, I'm sure there was something previously that the orders were collected for a few weeks, then randomised and processing does not start until the new year so giving everyone equal opportunity to place an order.

'I believe' The treasurer has now stepped down so is someone going to volunteer to organise this, David did many jobs for the society and will be sorely missed.

Also don't moan if you are charged extra to use paypal as there is a 4.25% cost for the society ( or thereabouts) I suppose you could send as friend so you pay the cost or it would be unfair on us cheque users :lol: ,
Tina

varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's and variegated agaves.

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habanerocat
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by habanerocat » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:55 pm

My view would be that the society is indeed trying to attract younger members. Unfortunately young people are busy with their busy lives and can't afford to spend the time that an older retired person has to offer.

Attracting middle aged people is also difficult because people are starting families now later in life. So the only solution I see is the re-training of older people who can give time and commitment.

But perhaps this is an argument for another thread........
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Tina
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by Tina » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:07 pm

All of this is done on a voluntary basis, to be the seed distributor you have to have a spare room or large spare space just to have the seed racking system without all the envelopes, stamps and other paperwork.

re-training of older people who can give time and commitment why should they retrain, what about other volunteers to show how easy it is to implement change :brk:.

We are only talking about 30p bags of seed, it would cost a lot more to buy these seeds elsewhere IF you could source some of them, can't you just be pleased with what you have been offered.
Tina

varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's and variegated agaves.

Bucks, UK
Branch co-ordinator Northampton & Mk Branch
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ragamala
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by ragamala » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:38 pm

Tina wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:39 pm
perceived unfairness of a seed-ordering system which requires receipt of the journal
no this is incorrect, the list is put online so everyone can process their order without waiting for the journal.
I used the word perceived because it was clear to me this is the case (not because it is my view) - looking at the thread "Late seed lists etc" it is obvious that folk do not clearly understand whether it is acceptable to submit a web-printed order form when instructions suggest submission of the order form accompanying the Journal. And BTW the link to the order form appears now invalid.

Further, I received my journal before the web link was posted.

Again we are back to the best solution being totally web based IMO.

I am totally in agreement with the efforts of volunteers being fully recognised and applauded. But how much better it would be if they did not come in for, or feel, even the slightest whiff of criticism because of a less than perfect system.
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juster
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Re: Cactus seed payment

Post by juster » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Tina wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:07 pm
We are only talking about 30p bags of seed, it would cost a lot more to buy these seeds elsewhere IF you could source some of them, can't you just be pleased with what you have been offered.
Tina you have made an excellent point here. It is just too easy to forget that the BCSS depends entirely on the hard work and good will of a great many volunteers. Like the rest of the human race, they are not perfect, and no system is ever going to be perfect. Of course let's suggest changes when they are needed, but let's also remember our old friend gratitude.
Croydon Branch member, growing mainly cacti and Echeverias
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