Cactus seed payment

[ragamala]

Let the overseas buyers get their mesembs from Mesa Gardens if they want to buy them, the seed list should be regarded as a privilege for UK members.

I am very uncomfortable with the direction this is going. Rather than resolve an issue faced by overseas members in particular, the solutions proposed point to excluding them altogether from seed offers. I am sure this is not what our Chairman intended. And I am sure this is counter to his stated intention of broadening the Society's appeal.

[Ali Baba]

The broader question of how to attract younger members seems to point the society in the direction of an online service for seed distribution, online journals etc.. Why bother joining the BCSS when you can get so much information online, including free online journals, seed/plant ordering and advice via Facebook?
Unless we move to an online service the BCSS will, I fear, quietly dwindle away.
I don't believe that 30% of BCSS members don't have access to a computer, no matter what the average age is of the membership (my 94 year old uncle is very internet savvy). It would be much fairer to those members who live in the far reaches of the UK or abroad to have equitable access to the seed distribution (they are all BCSS members after all wherever they live). Do away with postal orders/cheques and paper lists and bring on the webshop and Paypal! Join the 21st century or become fossilized...

No offence intended to any actual fossils of course

[el48tel]

Should Brexit go belly up the restrictions on importation and export of seeds may force our hand. We may not be able to get seeds from anywhere other than UK grown. Other countries may require much pain and paper on our part before they accept seeds from us. But that aside as has been said ... the system is run by volunteers ... the system should WORK for THEM ... we should accept the rules and rubric ... not dictate them. As for paying for the seeds ... I have made my points about the methodology ... but what about the following ....
As part of the membership fee which believe it or not I paid by credit card by email but I know could be paid at my branch or by cheque et cetera et cetera .... we build in say 20 or 30 packs of seeds plus postage .... so you only get seeds if you are paid up for the coming year. If you want more you accept the specified rules for the additional sum. If you don't want the seeds ... you could donate them on!

[Ian Thwaites]

This thread has taken a rather strange turn. So perhaps I should make certain things very clear.

We currently source our seeds from all over the world so I hope there will be little impact from Brexit.
We are an international Cactus and Succulent Society (based in the UK) and the second largest in the world (after the German). We welcome members from the 4 corners of the earth. Some overseas members supply some of our seeds! Many articles are provided by our overseas members. If you are a member of the BCSS I will not discriminate against you whatever your sex or wherever you live in the world. It makes no difference if you are sky blue pink with yellow dots (as my mother used to say to me).

I want to take your money for any purchases whether this be seeds, books or membership and I want this to be as convenient for you and the officers as possible.

Can we please leave it there!

Happy New Year

[conolady]

This thread has taken a rather strange turn. So perhaps I should make certain things very clear.

We currently source our seeds from all over the world so I hope there will be little impact from Brexit.
We are an international Cactus and Succulent Society (based in the UK) and the second largest in the world (after the German). We welcome members from the 4 corners of the earth. Some overseas members supply some of our seeds! Many articles are provided by our overseas members. If you are a member of the BCSS I will not discriminate against you whatever your sex or wherever you live in the world. It makes no difference if you are sky blue pink with yellow dots (as my mother used to say to me).

I want to take your money for any purchases whether this be seeds, books or membership and I want this to be as convenient for you and the officers as possible.

Can we please leave it there!

Happy New Year

Yes, all very fine, Ian, but you haven't told us how. Everybody here is trying to find a workable method, in detail, that suits everyone, particularly the volunteers. Why try to stop that discussion??

The idea that X number of seed packets be included in the membership fee is an excellent one. Work out a membership fee that includes the cost of seed and postage. It sorts so many problems and all orders can be put into a metaphorical hat. Sounds good to me!

And a Happy New a year to you!

[D^L]

Change is: unsettling, worryinging, frightening.
But unfortunately it is also necessary.
To try and limit who can get involved (either to internet only or postal only) and constrain how we work to the same way we did 40 years ago, condemns us. Condemns us to continue the slump in numbers, closure of branches and ultimately death of the society.
It is possible to change the society to have both internet and postal system working together, I think we need both and can have it.
What is not possible is to retain the society of 40 years ago. Or to have a society built entirely on new blood.
Cheers
David Lambie
Bristol

[Jim_Mercer]

The idea that X number of seed packets be included in the membership fee is an excellent one. Work out a membership fee that includes the cost of seed and postage. It sorts so many problems and all orders can be put into a metaphorical hat. Sounds good to me!

That is not a good idea - I would probably leave if the subscription was increased to cover the cost of 20 packets of seeds as previously suggested.

[ragamala]

We currently source our seeds from all over the world so I hope there will be little impact from Brexit.
We are an international Cactus and Succulent Society (based in the UK) and the second largest in the world (after the German).

The reference to the DKG was interesting, and made me wonder how their seed distribution works. As I am not a member I don't have access to a journal which specifies their ordering procedure (maybe a member can enlighten me), but it is clear however it happens they operate on a first-come first-served basis (see

https://www.dkg.eu/cs/index.pl?navid=Sa ... O3fwWB65W9

)

Also, interestingly, making me think Brexit will not make as little difference as you suggest, Ian, is their reference no not being able to send Appendix I Cites species outside the EU, which of course in future may apply to UK orders from Germany, and thinking of the BCSS distribution, similar proscription if we follow rules with Germanic precision.

Back to the basic issue, I think David is right in saying a system can evolve which gives opportunity for both internet and postal ordering. I am not convinced that quota allocation is the best way to handle that. And I also think it is healthy that debate on this continues in the forum. Surely this is exactly why we have a forum?

There is in reality no real other way in which most members can express their opinions. Even, eg, election of officials at an AGM means disenfranchisement of the majority. I would not push for speedy change, but the society imo should move slowly but positively towards a different way of working. Nevertheless I shall continue to support the Society regardless, and whatever happens.

[Ian Thwaites]

There is in reality no real other way in which most members can express their opinions. Even, eg, election of officials at an AGM means disenfranchisement of the majority. I would not push for speedy change, but the society imo should move slowly but positively towards a different way of working. Nevertheless I shall continue to support the Society regardless, and whatever happens.

I couldn't agree more - I am very happy for people to express views and promote suggestions. I am a big boy and I am very happy with a lively discussion. What I will not tolerate is proposals that we exclude certain fully paid up members from a benefit. Proposals that we should restrict seed sales to the UK, only use the internet etc etc. I serve every member and I will always try and treat everyone the same.

Yes I want to modernise the society to appeal to more and that means more use of the internet but I will never abandon members that do not have access to the www. There will be a method of balancing the two but until we have our new web shop sorted I cannot go into details that I currently don't have answers to.

Happy New year

Ian

[ragamala]

Happy New Year to you Ian, and indeed to all members.

I am very supportive of your efforts, if you should ever be in doubt from my posts.

Best
Alan