Another mesemb ID

[iann]

Hardy enough. Just be careful about the drainage. I have one outside, but it is in a spot that is protected from a lot of rain. Still pretty wet through winter though, so quite a tough plant. Here it is about five years ago and its still going strong.

[KarlR]

That's great to know, thanks! Your plant looks in excellent health as well. I suppose southern Norway might be a bit tougher but it'll get a nice sunny spot and good drainage so hopefully it'll do ok.

[BrianMc]

Bergeranthus glenensis seems to fit the bill after googling. Does anybody know how hardy this is? I was planning on planting it in my rock garden together with some sedums and sempervivums.

I really wish we could purge the internet of all the incorrectly named plant pics.
Bergeranthus and B.glenensis would be a good place to start! It is just self perpetuating errors

I currently grow 6 named Bergeranthus, all of which look distinctive and distinguishable from each other. However, Bergeranthus are pretty much all the same as far as descriptions go and the internet seems to have completely muddied the water. It would be really nice if someone was able to take on the genus, photograph and compare known habitat species, as I imagine there has also been a fair bit of hybridisation of captive plants.

With regard to hardiness, I realised long ago that my plants preferred the open air during spring, summer and autumn, rather than being cooped up in the greenhouse. They like plenty of air and water/rain during this time. I keep my plants in the greenhouse from the end of October until the start of April. They will take a touch of frost if they are dry and protected from rain, but I would be very surprised if they were happy below -5 to -7. If the plants are plump or wet they will rot with just a couple of degrees of frost.

[iann]

For a proper name. B vespertinus is close. Similar plants in cultivation are often called B. jamesii, but I think they've been lumped. To me, they always seem smoother and with different dot patterns than B. glenensis, but otherwise quite similar.

Whatever it should really be called, it can do a lot better than -7C. Dry in winter would help a lot, but mine isn't dry. It went through the two very cold winters about 5 years ago (more?) and never looked even slightly bothered. Temperatures went to -15C at the lowest, although the plant is close to the house and probably wasn't anything like that cold. Normal winters here reach about -7C at the lowest, often not even that recently. Neohenricia also survived, but it is known to be hardy.

[KarlR]

Bergeranthus glenensis seems to fit the bill after googling. Does anybody know how hardy this is? I was planning on planting it in my rock garden together with some sedums and sempervivums.

I really wish we could purge the internet of all the incorrectly named plant pics.
Bergeranthus and B.glenensis would be a good place to start! It is just self perpetuating errors

I currently grow 6 named Bergeranthus, all of which look distinctive and distinguishable from each other. However, Bergeranthus are pretty much all the same as far as descriptions go and the internet seems to have completely muddied the water. It would be really nice if someone was able to take on the genus, photograph and compare known habitat species, as I imagine there has also been a fair bit of hybridisation of captive plants.

With regard to hardiness, I realised long ago that my plants preferred the open air during spring, summer and autumn, rather than being cooped up in the greenhouse. They like plenty of air and water/rain during this time. I keep my plants in the greenhouse from the end of October until the start of April. They will take a touch of frost if they are dry and protected from rain, but I would be very surprised if they were happy below -5 to -7. If the plants are plump or wet they will rot with just a couple of degrees of frost.

This is a genus I am completely unfamiliar with, I'm just happy with a name that fits. But if the internet is "wrong" I'm more than happy to give it a more fitting name.

We just bought a house with a natural rock formation next to the lawn so I thought I'd make a rock garden out of it. The previous owners already built a few walled up beds on parts of the exposed rock, which are now full of weeds and various garden flowers. But it's a decent spot for a succulent rock garden I think. There are already some sedums growing naturally there and the soil the previous owners used is quite decent so I'll just improve the drainage a bit and it should be good to go.

Anyway, as it's my first time trying a rock garden I'm more than happy to make mistakes along the way and lose some plants. I did quite like the Bergeranthus though so maybe I should take a cutting to bring inside for the winter in case the main plant decides to expire.

I'll be sure to report back if it survives, but if it can tolerate the temperatures and wetness described by Iann, it should make it here.

[BrianMc]

For a proper name. B vespertinus is close. Similar plants in cultivation are often called B. jamesii, but I think they've been lumped. To me, they always seem smoother and with different dot patterns than B. glenensis, but otherwise quite similar.

B.vespertinus and B.jamesii are 'supposedly' synonymous.....who knows!?!
I have two different B.jamesii and one B.vespertinus, there is extreme difference in size and subtle colour/epidermis differences between all three.

The difference between 'glenensis' and the above plants is obvious!

The plant in the original thread photo could do with a good soaking and then another photo. The appearance of the pellucid dots and epidermis of 'glenensis' can change quite markedly between between drought and well watered state.

In my opinion, I think we should avoid trying to put specific names on unidentified Bergeranthus acquisitions in most cases. A few species/taxa are obvious when grown well. However, the state of the genus in cultivation is a mess, which is highlighted and perpetuated by the internet. The current state of Bergeranthus taxonomy??? Difficult to say when we judge the plants in cultivation, whether correctly or incorrectly labelled. That is why I believe that wild populations need to be examined and photographed. Populations of the same species may vary in the wild, but at least we would have a clearer understanding!

Whatever it should really be called, it can do a lot better than -7C. Dry in winter would help a lot, but mine isn't dry. It went through the two very cold winters about 5 years ago (more?) and never looked even slightly bothered. Temperatures went to -15C at the lowest, although the plant is close to the house and probably wasn't anything like that cold. Normal winters here reach about -7C at the lowest, often not even that recently.

Well done!
-7C is -7C in any language, but we are probably comparing apples with oranges. I doubt very much that the microclimates where our plants are growing are identical. -7C in my garden will not be the same as -7C in your garden and different again in a garden on the South East coast. Considering genetic difference in hardiness between individuals and you have another factor to add to the melting pot.

[Paul in Essex]

I consider these to be bone hardy stalwarts in SE Essex. But I am struggling to sift through this thread to find the nuggets. Can someone please confirm the real name for plants bought from the garden centre as Bergeranthus glenensis? Ta. Doesn't help that I have yellow flowered ones, white flowered ones and an enormous clone with leaves like carpobrotus

[MikeT]

Here is the original plant after plenty of rain in the last week.

after rain

leaf detail

Then the plant I've had for some years as Herreroa glenensis, it's in a pot but outdoors all year; it was previously planted out in Chris R's garden. It's been fully exposed to all the weather Sheffield winters can throw at it for many years now. It has a gnarled caudex. Having looked more closely, it does have spotting on the leaves, it does look rather similar to the new plant, the smaller leaves may reflect less feeding than the new plant has had.

"Herreroa" with caudex

"Herreroa" leaf

So do these fit with the plant known as "Herreroa glenensis"? If so, would "Bergeranthus sp" be better on the label?

[Apicra]

The natural taxa of Bergeranthus were revised in depth by Dold, Hammer & Barker in Haseltonia 2005 and this revision is freely available, including a key:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Aizoaceae

Best wishes,
Derek Tribble

[MikeT]

Thanks, Derek

Lacking the scanning electron microscope required to follow the key through accurately doesn't help, but the plants seem to key out as B. nana. I think I'll go for "Bergeranthus ?nana" on the labels.