Cactus seed payment

[conolady]

I didn't know this would become such a hot topic. I resent some of the suggestions and ideas put forward here, and the notion maybe I shouldn't be growing plants (?). I literally just enquired about a complementary way in which to pay for seeds, and when it was explained why this would be difficult I said I would get a postal order as per society guidelines.

I really don't think anyone is pinpointing you, Stevium. At least I hope not. I think/ believe/hope that folk are just letting off steam about what they perceive as modern life rocking their little boat. That and the fact people don't read posts carefully to see what is actually being said, just react to the last one or two that they see, hence the Chinese whispers effect. Please don't be upset. You've done and said nothing wrong at all, far from it. As for the 'good old days' sentiments expressed lately in this thread...words fail me. Time folk had a good look at themselves and then the world around them, then have a long consider about what they say. Positive and practical seems to me to be the best way forward about most problems in life.

[D^L]

I'm with conolady here, I don't think people are having a go at you Stevie, you have just highlighted a difficult but important issue in the society, where there are a lot of strong opinions.

As Terry said, we depend on volunteers, many of whom have given freely of their time to the society for year/decades. There are people in this pool who work most happily in an environment where paper changes hands and post and cheques and postal orders are the norm. The extra burden of managing Paypal is likely to result in some designations which would be very difficult for the society.

On the other hand there are those who live naturally with Paypal and virtual exchanges. I got a cheque book from my bank a few years ago, I only got it to buy some BCSS seed and in the intervening period, the only things I have used it for are BCSS seed. I am an enthusiast with decades experience who downsized to about 1500 plants a few years ago. So I put up with this inconvenience. But many wavering, new members will see the lack of Paypal as the straw that breaks the camel's back and we may lose the opportunity they hold.

Somehow we need a system that will work for both - it's not impossible.
Cheers
David Lambie
Bristol

[mary44]

Hi Stevie, I was not criticising you in my comment on the previous page. If you read it that way I can only apologise, it was not my intent. The subject though of how to make applying for and obtaining seeds from the various society distributions though will not go away. And as I said on the previous page life used to be so much simpler. I don't see why progress always has to be good and nothing said here has changed my mind on it .

I too have now got a 20 plus mile drive to my bank, and the local post offices here are closing so I sympathise regarding the difficulties you face. I use paypal for purchases and it certainly is easy to use. Managing it though sounds a nightmare for a small society such as this.

I really do appreciate the job that the various seed distribution officers do though. I have some superb seedlings growing sown from the B.C.S.S seed distribution of 2014/15. Some super Lithops aucampiae Bellaketty for exaple amongst numerous others, beautiful plants that I am only now beginning to appreciate as I learn more about them. I have no idea where the seeds came from but they all germinated. And 20 years of seedlings grown from from MSG seed, very treasured plants.

[Ian Thwaites]

I have to apologise for not really being on the forums enough but I do pop in every now and again to see whats going on.

I have read this thread with interest and I have to say I agree with every comment made! The society does revolve around volunteers and we all owe them a great debt of gratitude for all their hard work. I have to say that we are really running short of people who dedicate quite a bit of time to the society and several key volunteers are trying to retire so if you have a little spare time and would like to help please get in touch. The more volunteers we have the less work any individual

Back to the issue in question - apart from the web site the society operates extensively like it did 40 years ago and the way we handle the seed sales is exactly the same. I seldom buy seeds these days for the simple reason that I don't know where I put my cheque book. Put simply we have to find a better way. The society has spent thousands of pounds on a new web site (before I was elected) and the initiative has just been allowed to stall through a variety of reasons. I had a meeting with some of the officers last July and asked them to document their requirements and nothing has happened. I have tried very hard to get this project back on track and it will be one of my main priorities next year when I will take the bull by the horns and I will propose what we need to do!

One of the things I want is an automated on-line shop to which we can add the seed offering whereby you will be able to purchase the seeds on-line and these will only be offered whilst stock is available. We will also be able to automate the payment (paypal / debit card / credit card and perhaps just add it to your direct debit) We have to start appealing to the next generation who can order in the evening and expect delivery two or three days later. HOWEVER, we still have members without internet access and I WILL protect their ability to purchase seeds through the old fashioned methods. I will try very hard not to disadvantage any member so I do have a tightrope to walk.

Please feel free to contact me on any matter and if you would like to help me build a society for tomorrow please think about volunteering or even standing as a trustee as I need fresh blood to help the society become equipped for the 21st Century. Please rest assured that I do not want to abandon branches, zones, shows, conventions, open days etc etc as this is the lifeblood of the society. What I want to do is attract more people to join the wonderful party that is our hobby!

[habanerocat]

I have to apologise for not really being on the forums enough but I do pop in every now and again to see whats going on.

I have read this thread with interest and I have to say I agree with every comment made! The society does revolve around volunteers and we all owe them a great debt of gratitude for all their hard work. I have to say that we are really running short of people who dedicate quite a bit of time to the society and several key volunteers are trying to retire so if you have a little spare time and would like to help please get in touch. The more volunteers we have the less work any individual

Back to the issue in question - apart from the web site the society operates extensively like it did 40 years ago and the way we handle the seed sales is exactly the same. I seldom buy seeds these days for the simple reason that I don't know where I put my cheque book. Put simply we have to find a better way. The society has spent thousands of pounds on a new web site (before I was elected) and the initiative has just been allowed to stall through a variety of reasons. I had a meeting with some of the officers last July and asked them to document their requirements and nothing has happened. I have tried very hard to get this project back on track and it will be one of my main priorities next year when I will take the bull by the horns and I will propose what we need to do!

One of the things I want is an automated on-line shop to which we can add the seed offering whereby you will be able to purchase the seeds on-line and these will only be offered whilst stock is available. We will also be able to automate the payment (paypal / debit card / credit card and perhaps just add it to your direct debit) We have to start appealing to the next generation who can order in the evening and expect delivery two or three days later. HOWEVER, we still have members without internet access and I WILL protect their ability to purchase seeds through the old fashioned methods. I will try very hard not to disadvantage any member so I do have a tightrope to walk.

Please feel free to contact me on any matter and if you would like to help me build a society for tomorrow please think about volunteering or even standing as a trustee as I need fresh blood to help the society become equipped for the 21st Century. Please rest assured that I do not want to abandon branches, zones, shows, conventions, open days etc etc as this is the lifeblood of the society. What I want to do is attract more people to join the wonderful party that is our hobby!

Sounds exactly like what is needed, agreed.

[Terry S.]

The problem with automated ordering systems is that they are strictly first-come, first-served. The smart phone brigade will be frequently checking for the new seed list around 10th December and there is potential for all the goodies to be sold-out before the conventional-orderers have a chance. Trying to run an old-fashioned ordering system and a digital one in parallel would be challenging to say the least and I wouldn't like to be the person managing them. This new website has been promised to us for around 2 years and one wonders if it will end up like some of our Government's IT projects?

Incidentally, the problems of people wanting to buy seeds without a cheque book could be easily rectified by just sending some cash for seed payments.

[Ian Thwaites]

The problem with automated ordering systems is that they are strictly first-come, first-served. The smart phone brigade will be frequently checking for the new seed list around 10th December and there is potential for all the goodies to be sold-out before the conventional-orderers have a chance. Trying to run an old-fashioned ordering system and a digital one in parallel would be challenging to say the least and I wouldn't like to be the person managing them. This new website has been promised to us for around 2 years and one wonders if it will end up like some of our Government's IT projects?

Incidentally, the problems of people wanting to buy seeds without a cheque book could be easily rectified by just sending some cash for seed payments.

Terry,

I do agree with you and as I have said I will never disadvantage the generation without internet but the society will need to move on. I am thinking that perhaps we will open the orders at a date after Christmas and then allocate 30-40% to postal orders and 60% to the net. This way we would cater for both options and also those living in the back reaches of the UK who may have their journal and seed order delayed. After the first year we can fine tune the allocation between on-line and postal until we get this as balanced as we can. What I will not do is disadvantage the new generation any more than I would the traditional membership.

The other element to consider is that we are the largest English speaking society and as such attract members from all over the world and the current system does disadvantage those from overseas whose journal is delayed and their postal seed order will similarly be delayed.

However, unless we get some volunteers we may not have a seed list soon. The current seed buyer wants to retire and we are unable to find a volunteer to replace him. He is hanging on for us but this good will will not last forever!

The Web site project is a real thorn in my side and I am determined to make this happen. The government has the advantage over me in that they can get their people to work on it!

[Tony R]

Good luck, Ian, on taking the Society forward and solving all these inherited 'challenges' and 'opportunities' in the future. I hope that the BOT and associated volunteers will evolve during the coming years to help you in this quest. I know you will have the complete breadth of the current and future membership in your mind as these endeavours proceed. All the best for an exciting New Year!

[ragamala]

The problem with automated ordering systems is that they are strictly first-come, first-served.

But Terry, am I wrong in thinking that the traditional ordering systems both on BCSS and MSG operated on first-come, first served? If I am correct this is not an argument against change.

Commercial sellers surely operate in this way - and successfully. If by "smart phone brigade" you are making (however unintentionally) a seemingly derogatory remark against those of the younger generation (and those of us older folk) who use technology they have been brought up with or accepted as today's norm, then this is something I find difficult to accept, because it is part and parcel of the old-style attitudes which Ian is obviously trying so hard to overcome. Ian I welcome wholeheartedly your intentions. I see it is not an easy task.

And Terry, to suggest we go back to cash as a final solution is something I could not support. We must look forward not backward, as Ian suggests.

[ragamala]

Trying to run an old-fashioned ordering system and a digital one in parallel would be challenging to say the least and I wouldn't like to be the person managing them.

Terry,

I do agree with you and as I have said I will never disadvantage the generation without internet but the society will need to move on. I am thinking that perhaps we will open the orders at a date after Christmas and then allocate 30-40% to postal orders and 60% to the net. This way we would cater for both options and also those living in the back reaches of the UK who may have their journal and seed order delayed.

Ian

Terry has a very good point. To try and use a segregated system would be difficult and hard to justify. Quotas rarely work well in many fields. If the intention is to adjust the items on sale for internet purchasers depending on availability this raises two problems. One is internet purchasers may be denied seedds which are available but in the postal quota. Secondly, the lack of such a system for the postal quota creates an inequality, with postal orderers possibly ordering out-of-stock items (even if available through the internet quota). I just can't see this working well. Nor can I see that the first year's experience would lead to a perfect change - if internet availability is "sold out" and non-orderable, you have no idea who may have ordered the items if they had been available.

I think one system for all is the answer. If individual members have no internet access surely they can prevail upon friends and relatives to do the ordering for them? I know many folk who use free library access but don't have home internet.

Contrary to what one member who has contributed here thinks, the forum is the only place we should feel able to discuss openly the issues involved which affect us all. Without rancour.