Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

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WayneM
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Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by WayneM » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:32 pm

Hello All, especially those of you in the know about Echeveria Agavoides.

Recently I've had a quite unpleasant experience with a well known seller off of Evil bay .

I was mis sold an Agavoides , and I am in the middle of getting ebay involved in its return and refund. The seller sold an item as a Pink Sirius and then two days later listed the exact same photograph under Red Sparkles Star? Believing I had bought a Pink Sirius I asked the seller to confirm what I had purchased. Despite 5 polite emails, I had no reply. I then requested the item be cancelled, to which he posted the plant the next day. It's not been a good experience. (td)

Which leads to my question. What are the valid types of Echeveria Agavoides? and what are just marketing names for the same plants designed to snare enthusiastic collectors? ie, me :roll:

For instance I'm thinking that Burgundy is the same plant as Red Wine? ( I have Burgundy through a trusted UK ebay seller)

Is there such a hybrid as Yellow Ebony, or is this just through the levels of light it's subjected to by the seller.

Red Rubin, Romeo Rubin? Taurus / Romeo , Purple Dark Tips, Giant Purple. Red Sparkles Star???

Personally I have Aquamarine, Ebony, Red Edge/Lipstick, Purple Dark Tips, Burgundy, Romeo and a normal green Agavoides that was sprayed in a rather fetching orange spray paint. I still don't own a Pink Sirius, of which a friend owns, I covet thee. It remains elusive .

So in your experience, what are the real deal.
Thanks Wayne
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Stuart
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by Stuart » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:46 pm

There's far too many names about, mostly made up by sellers who have bought a tray of plants wholesale and think it is a good idea to make up an imaginative name. It shouldn't happen but it does!
There's 'Ebony' which is a valid name though only plants grown from offsets or tissue culture with that name should be called 'Ebony'
'Bordeaux' is a deep red colour named by the Dutch Nurseryman who produced it and it will come true from seed.
otherwise, the pink leaved one which also comes true from seed has been given a few names by different nurseries but 'Taurus' seems to be the most common name used. There's also a nice pale green form with no name.

It's probably best to buy plants for their looks rather than by their name though there are very dubious photos both on Ebay and Amazon of Photoshopped or artificially coloured plants. (There's a Cotyledon currently on Amazon with pale blue leaves) I'd stick with trusted online sellers or better still, one of the BCSS Cactus Marts held around the UK each year.

Stuart
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by Chez2 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:58 am

Surreal succulents seem to have some nice plants. They don't have the one with the name you are looking for but they do create hybrids. Might be worth a look.
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by Terry S. » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:52 am

To have any validity, cultivar names have to be established in a printed publication (on-line not OK) that has some distribution. Usually it is done in printed plant catalogues or journals. In the establishment, the essential characters of the cultivar have to be described and ideally, but not essentially, there should be a photo of a typical plant. Also ideally, that cultivar should have been bulked up by seed (if true) or vegetatively before the cultivar name is established; there should be an assemblage of them.

The problem is that in many cases, this is not happening so that one has no idea what a cultivar name should apply to. I have been shown commercial trays of Echeveria agavoides seedlings in which every plant has been different. A retail vendor wishing to increase sales or sales price might be tempted to give each plant a name.

Major commercial plant groups have International Cultivar Registration Authorities (ICRA) through which name establishment should go. So for example if you buy a rose cultivar, you know exactly what you are getting. However, very few succulent plant groups have ICRAs and it is a bit of a wild west frontier out there.
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by daniel82 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:22 am

I had thought that the name "romeo" was a valid one also. It is the proper name for "taurus", which seems to have been applied by a wholesaler at some point.
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by Stuart » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:25 pm

There are some 'surreal' photos online which look nothing like the actual colour of the plants when they're posted. 'Taurus' and 'Romeo' are continental nursery names for pink leaved cultivars, some grown from seed and some cloned plants, as far as I know they all originated from the same nursery but names are added by the various secondary wholesalers. I just sell it as 'Agavoides with pink leaves'. There's also a variegated green one with pink streaks in some leaves which will be distributed eventually.

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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by agavemad » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:05 pm

So many plants are turning up with different names. It is really quite frustrating. A lot of the Korean plants have different names for the same plant with colour variation and people are getting scammed thinking they are buying something rare and unusual. (not all plants, but quite a few)
I have a tray of agavoides I have grown from seed, they have not been watered since Oct and some are showing really nice colours due to the stress.... But come mid summer I feel they will all look the same.
The most ordinary plant like echeveria elegans which is just plain powdery white is summer has fantastic purple/pink/blue colouring during winter. If you rip the bottom leaves off so it looks like its on a stalk then it can be a super rare new variety :grin:
I think people are trying to cash in on a growing trend and its a case of buyer beware
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by WayneM » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:02 pm

The trick seems to be not only selling plants under multiple names, but putting plants under lights to produce different results. Eventually the plants reverts to its natural state, but that's well after they've banked your money!

The plant that came from my seller didn't have a label with it, I guess its just left to his artistic interpretation of what he wanted to send me? The Consumer Right Acts states that the goods you get must be as they were described to you. I wonder what Ebay's views are on this? Meanwhile the seller is still doing it.

I'm seeing different types of Ebony around ..but as I said I am betting its just lighting conditions they've been subjected to.

Anyway enough grumbling, I still love Agavoides

Ebony remains a great plant and one they cannot be mistaken.
Image
ebony.jpg
Burgundy a superb deep colour
Image
DSC09793.jpg
Romeo/Taurus a consistent pink.
Image
DSC09260.jpg
Even my homebase bought Lipstick has remained true.
Image
DSC09237.jpg
download/file.php?id=61647&t=1
This a a very small but pretty hybrid
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Does any one have experience of growing Purple Dark Tips or Giant Purple? Would love to see some pictures.
My very very small Purple Dark Tips
Image
DSC09795.jpg
And finally my obsession for a Pink Sirius, this my friend Chris G one..it's lovely :mrgreen:
Image
echeveria-sirius-aug14.jpg
Wayne
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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by Tina » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:45 am

Its all a gimmick, I sent an acquaintance a few like burnt burgundy and she promptly renamed them red robin and sold one, at a good mark up :eek:, no more parcels from me .

Its the same with variegated agaves, there are so many people with wrongly named plants and some that often seem to list agaves with the wrong name, there is a chap on Ebay who does this a lot and I do wonder if it's on purpose.

Have to agree Echeveria Agavoides ebony is the best one around
Tina

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Re: Echeveria Agavoides..the real deal or marketing gimmick?

Post by juster » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:49 pm

Some lovely plants there Wayne. I think it's a bit of a mine field on e bay for plants, I don't blame you for grumbling! Definitely a case of 'buyer beware'.
Croydon Branch member, growing mainly cacti and Echeverias
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