Range of Eriosyce paucicostata

[Jens]

Eriosyce paucicostata is known to be a species theat is quite variable (it incorporates a few species described by F. Ritter)
I would find it interesting to compare what other cacti growers keep under this name to mark the edges of the variation of paucicostata.
Today I took a few pictures: The reddish flowering one is probably a form of confinis.

Paucicostata

Paucicostata sideway

Py. fuscus (Ritt.)

paucicostata (Py. fuscus)

Nc. fobeana (Backeberg)

[DaveW]

It depends what you consider to be paucicostata? Ritter, who described the plant recognised only P. paucicostata and var. viridis, considering the other forms distinct species, which mostly he also had described..

Kattermann in his Eriosyce book lumped them under the oldest name available from the region being Hutchison's red flowered plant from Esmeralda, N. taltalensis. Kattermann's treatment for this group with the principle synonyms is:-

E. taltalensis.
syn. P. taltalensis
P. rupicolus
P. tenuis

E. taltalensis v. pygmaea
syn. P. pygmaeus
P. calderanus
P. gracilis
P. scoparius
P. intermedius
P. pulchellus
P. transiens

E. taltalensis ssp. paucicostata
syn. P. paucicostatus
P. paucicostata v. viridis
P. neohankeanus and vars.

Katterman lists as names of doubtful application, possibly referable to E. taltalensis ssp. paucicostata:-
fuscus, ebenacanthus, hankeanus, fobeanus. I would think these correspond more to Ritter's concept of his P. neohankeanus and vars.

E. taltalensis ssp echinus
syn. P. echinus
P. echinus v. minor
P. glaucescens

E. taltalensis v. floccosa
syn. P. floccosus
N. eriocephala

E. taltalensis ssp. pilispina
syn. P. pliispina

If you follow the wider concept of E. taltalensis therefore it swallows up virtually everything of this type from the Paposo - Esmeralda and even further southern regions, with flowers from white to purple-red and from stiff to bristly spines.

DaveW

[Jens]

Thats quite a detailed summary , thanks Dave!
With -paucicostata- I meant what Kattermann described under Eriosyce taltalensis ssp. paucicostata. Especially I would find it interesting too what people have under the older synonyms which are possible referable to Eriosyce taltalensis ssp. paucicostata (fuscus, ebenacanthus, hankeanus, fobeanus).
Jens

[DaveW]

I will have a look to see if I have any Ferryman habitat pictures of paucicostata. Regarding variation in habitat scroll down the links to see Juan Acosta's pictures:-

http://www.eriosyce.info/eriosyce/pauci ... ostata.htm

http://www.eriosyce.info/eriosyce/pauci ... chinus.htm

http://www.eriosyce.info/eriosyce/pauci ... occosa.htm

Of course Roger Ferryman's concept of paucicostata used in the New Cactus Lexicon is slightly different to Fred Kattermann's since he includes echinus and floccosa under it.

I would have thought a lot of the red/brown bodied types would probably have fallen within Ritter's concept of P. neohankeanus. Afraid it is a long time since I really kept up with the nomenclature and distribution of what eventually became Eriosyce. I reproduce below my early translations of some original Ritter descriptions I did which are dated 1976 which makes me feel old being from before his 4 volume work Kakteen in Sudamerika! Anyway these are the habitats given by Ritter for his names in their original descriptions:-

P. echinus and v. minor.
Cerra Coloso, in the vicinity of Antofagasta, North Chile.

P. glaucescens.
On the coast in the vicinity of El Cobre, North Chile.

P. floccosus.
Mountains on the coast of Province Antofagasta, North Chile

P. paucicostatus.
Some 20km to the north of Paposo, North Chile.

Ritter goes on to say in his original description of the then Horridocactus paucicostata and v. viridis in Succulenta No. 9, Sept 1959 (genera as then used in the article, Ritter later used Pyrrhocactus instead of Horidocactus etc):-

Distribution : towards the south up to and beyond Paposo, where however varieties make their appearance.

Systematics; this species is closely related to Chileocactus floccosus sp. nov. - still to be published - that grows further to the north and also with Horridocactus FR 212 (under investigation) - [note later described as P. neohankeanus by Ritter DW] whoose distribution area adjoins to the south.

P. paucicostata v. viridis.
Towards the south the type merges into this variety which grows in the surroundings of Paposo. This variety again overlaps the distribution area of FR 212 coming from further south and hybridises with them. The variety viridis is regarded as a connecting link with FR 212, but is in spite of that still a variety of paucicostatus. FR 212 is so different from paucicostatus, that without a doubt it is a separate species.

I have not had time to look at Ritter's Kakteen in Sudamerika to see how his opinions changed in the intervening years since the above localities are from his original publications of the species in Succulenta and Taxon.

An interesting name he published but later dropped is the purple, white or rose margined flowered P. rupicolus, whose habitat was given as:- North Chile, mountains and rocks between Alorro (south-west of Caldera) and north of Paposo. Which is a very long range.

Whether this species was dropped because he found that Hutchison's P. taltalensis from Sierra Esmeralda took prescedence I do not know. (P. taltalensis Hutch. type locality 3 miles north of Planta Esmeralda and 1 mile inland from the coast on a road to the shoreline, on the sides of a shallow ravine). Anyway Ritter seems to have later adopted P. taltalensis Hutch. for the northern end of his former P. rupicolus range, and P. tenuis for the southern end. I suspect Knize's P. violaciflorus is Ritter's P. tenuis, but I would need to look it's habitat up.

Just looked up P. neohankeanus up in Ritter's Kakteen in Sudamerika Band 3 and he gives the habitat for FR 212 P. neohankeanus as Cachita, Taltal, Chile.

Afraid I am now very rusty on Eriosyce since it is many years since I researched their habitats and nomenclature. In those days they were not so popular in the UK as they are now and few Brit's had ever visited their habitats at that time.

DaveW

[Jens]

Dave that´s great information. I shall take some time to devour it.
I´ve looked at the spiniflores webpage many times and it´s just wonderful habitat dokumentation. But as it is in the northern species their habitat is so dry that they didn´t always capture a flower in the pictures. And those same plants would change their appearance in cultivation too I think.
With the popularity of eriosyce it is viceversa in Germany I think. They were really hip in the 60 th and now the popularity is low (but on the rise).
I´ll do some reading. See you soon.

Edit: Could this be FR 212 from near Cachita? (Bought from CactusArt)

Eriosyce cachytayensis (Np. cachytayensis) Blüte 2010 Mai 29

Eriosyce cachytayensis (Np. cachytayensis) Blüte 2010 Mai 29

[DaveW]

I would not be surprised, the plants from these areas have been given many names and neohankeana is from Cachita. Have you got Ritter's 4 volume "Kakteen in Sudamerica"? If not I will see if I can decipher his P. neohankeanus description. I think I have the original fobeanus description somewhere too.

DaveW

[Jens]

Hello Dave
Yes I have got the Ritter books Kakteen in Südamerika Vol. 1,3, 4. I will look up Py. neohankeanus and translate it here soon.
Echinocactus Fobeanus (Mühlenph.)/ Nc. fobeana (Backeb.) is not accepted by Ritter as it seems. He thinks the dscription of the plant is too vague and there was no habitat information to it. Ritter thought Backebergs descripion of Fobeanus matches his (Ritters) Py. jussieui.

[DaveW]

I saw the description of fobeanus only the other day but cannot find it again at the moment Jens. Anyway about your original question as to paucicostata's flower colour etc. The description below is summarised from Ritter's original longer description in Succulenta No. 9, Sept. 1959.

Plant; solitary, later columnar ca 6-8cm diameter and 15-30cm long and then half recumbent, strikingly grey-blue-green, with barely developed or virtually absent tap root.
Ribs; very pronounced, even in young plants, later to nearly 2cm high, only 8-12 ribs fairly acute, at the base much broader, with very small cross grooves above the areoles, but a strong chin under the areoles. -------

Flower; 3-5cm long, opening 3-5cm broad, scentless.
Ovary; green to brownish, with white flecks of wool in the axils of the very small brownish scales.
Flower Tube; tubular up to the nectar chamber, above that funnel shaped to bell shaped, 1.4-2.2cm long, opening to 1.3-1.7cm broad, on the outside like the ovary, with however in the axils a single stiff brown or black bristly spine, interior practically white.
Nectar Chamber; 2.25-4mm long, 3-4mm broad, half open.
Stamens; white, more or less tinged green, the lowermost 0.75-1cm long, the uppermost 1-1.5 cm long; anthers small, pale citron-colour, extending not altogether as far as halfway up the flower.
Style; carmine colour, 2.2-2.4cm long, 1.5mm thick, with 8-10 cream coloured 3mm long stigma lobes, that approximately equal the anthers or slightly exceed these.
Petals; 1.7-2cm long, 3-5mm broad, shorter or longer the innermost white, the outermost more pink, with white margin.

v. viridis. differs from the type on account of the 10-13 ribs and the grass-green epidermis colour.

Strange to say Ritter's original bluish-grey-green bodied paucicostata is not as common these days as it used to be. It is usually the green bodied form he called v. viridis that is the most common as far as I have noticed. I lost my original grey-blue-green bodied paucicostata presumably from Winter's seed grown in the 1960's and have never been able top get one again. The only illustration I can find on the Web of Ritter's original chalky-greyish bodied paucicostata is on this Japanese Web site if you scroll down almost to the bottom:-

http://cinerea.nomaki.jp/nn/i_neoc.html

And this one.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho ... 1834hZENfF

Looking through my notes it seems I wrongly attributed Knize's violaciflora to tenuis. Evidently it must equate to taltalensis as I see I have picked up from somewhere (probably one of Knize's early travelogues) that KK68 comes from Northern Paposo.

I have evidently picked up a description of violaciflora from a similar source (KK did a couple of travelogues when he first went to Chile).

Neochilenia violaciflora K. Knize nomen nudum

Small, up to 50mm diameter, ribs low, barely distinguishable, radial spines up to 5mm long, white, shiny, 3-4 central spines.
Flower violet up to 50mm diameter with a green tube furnished with sparse little woolly tufts. Collection number KK or Kz 68.

No doubt most Forum members are now sick to death of the paucicostata group and not that interested in going into matters to this depth, so if not of general interest to the membership Jens if you PM me we can take it further off Forum by e-mail? As I say I am a bit rusty on the subject though since it is a long time since I pursued it at any depth.

DaveW

[Phil_SK]

No doubt most Forum members are now sick to death of the paucicostata group and not that interested in going into matters to this depth

Well, that's tough. Nobody makes anybody read everything. I'm following all this and hope you keep your discussion here

[Jens]

Hi Dave, your comments are just fascinating I think we should keep it here and once in a while mix in a photo or two. (Since this is a British forum understatement is the rule here but you are taking understatement to a new dimension )
So these should maybe resemble Ritters Py. paucicostatus

Eriosyce taltalensis ssp. paucicostata (Katt.)

Eriosyce taltalensis ssp. paucicostata (Katt.)