CactusWorld (Dec 2023) Copiapoa

[Benjy]

I was just wondering what other peoples thoughts were on the new species Copiapoa saxifraga ?
Many are saying it's Ritters Copiapoa calderana 'spinosior', an old plant with a new name ?
that's been well visited and photographed over many years. I have pictures myself 20 years old.

Also, Knizes Copiapoa 'goldii' location has been well visited for many years by travellers to Chile.
There's an easy location that can be visited by vehicle without any long walks.
('goldii' is seen here in my avatar, and this exact same plant was later photographed and printed
on the front page of (CactusWorld Volume 26 No.1 March 2008).

I also read in the journal that Copiapoa fruits are almost identical throughout the genus.
There are actually many differences between a lot of the fruits.
If anyone is interested in the differences in Copiapoa fruit and or any other Copiapoa stuff, I posted a lot of it here - My Copiapoa

I did a lot of work with Copiapoa fruit and seeds over the years (that's the reason for the photos) regarding the different types
of approach to Copiapoa seed storage (short and long term too) and the germination results thereafter.
It was planned to be published eventually, but never was.

Cheers:)

[nobby]

When I read the description of C. saxifraga, I was not sure whether it was the same locality as Ritter's C. calderana var. spinosior. But Roger's comment about the Thelocephalas made me unsure. I know of no better place to find T. krausii than there. But there are several interesting localities for Copiapoa between Caldera and Chanaral. I think there will be more clarity on Copiapoa saxifraga soon.

Is it really the location of Knize where C. "goldii" has been reported in recent years? I know the population of C. longistaminea subsp. imperialis and the plants from Cifuncho that are labelled as Copiaoa "goldii". However, Knize states for his "true" C. "goldii" that the locality is south of Esmeralda! I know of no reports of C. "goldii" from the area between Chanaral and Esmeralda

I agree with you - there are clear differences in the fruits of Copiapoas. We - my wife and I - have only become more intensively involved with Copiapoas in the last two years. Before that, we tended to "visit" them. The differences in the fruits are immediately noticeable and the pictures you posted on Facebook are a great help.

Nobby

[nobby]

Sorry - I have forgotten the picture - Copiapoa calderana var. spinosior Dec. 2023:

[Benjy]

Thankyou Nobby for your informative reply, very much appreciated.

Interesting about 'goldii', as I always thought they were the plants found at Cifuncho.

Some examples below of what I photographed as Copiapoa calderana v. spinosior.

[DaveW]

I forwarded this discussion to Roger Ferryman and this was his reply:-

"I struggle a bit with Copiapoa, there are many overlaps and it’s easy to pick differences yet they are not always consistent. Regarding saxifraga it does not grow where Benjy suggests. The place is not well visited because it is actually being blown apart for the stone. Has been for years and I only visited once as it’s a mess. Further north is the habitat of Ritters C. Calderana var spinosior and visited by everybody interested in cactus. The DNA on saxifraga suggests it fits with marginata not calderana but then I have problems in separating the two. Yes the Morro Copiapo form of marginata is very different but there are many populations where single plants are difficult to tell which they are. You will remember many of the cinerea you saw would look similar to columna alba. Same issues with megahiza and many more.

Regarding “goldii”, that’s another story. KK never collected it but used local fishermen to supply plants. He wrote to me saying it came from Pan de Azucar but........
There are golden forms of longistamminea that stretch from Esmeralda to Cifuncho and no doubt the fishermen collected randomly from that area which is rich in seaweed and provides a number of the guys with a good income. Of course KK never described it but it has been described by an Italian as longistamminea ssp imperialis. The description is very poor but he quotes the habitat as north of Esmeralda which would fit. I meet Jan Novak in Chile. He has 7 locations and numbers for goldii so you can see it’s just a form.

The plant I illustrated in the journal I noticed at this location had numerous young plants with yellow spines. All other locations there were mixed spine colours. Does that make it distinct, no of course not and it will be interesting to see what comes up from the seed I collected.

[Benjy]

Thankyou Dave, and please thank Roger for me for his additional information,
very helpful and appreciated.

[DaveW]

Hi Benjy

I "Googled" Copiapoa using one of the localities and found 3-4 year old seedlings under Copiapoa sp or Copiapoa longistaminea aff (= affinity) were being sold by a Bulgarian nursery at €10 each, so obviously have been available in the EU for some time though unnamed.

Therefore as with many so called new species it has obviously been in cultivation from other sources for a while, but just under numbers or as a Copiapoa sp. from that habitat. The E. Europeans have many plants in cultivation unnamed that are eventually described much later by other collectors visiting habitat thinking they are the first to find them.

They were under SHPR numbers, but these don't appear in Ralph's numbers list, so whether they are collectors or just acquisition numbers I do not know?