Brexit deal and imports

[Stuart]

When I've brought plants back from the US, all cacti have needed CITES permits, regardless of whether they've been App1 or App2, almost all cacti are covered by CITES apart from grafted plants on Hylocereus or tins of Nopalitos. Large commercial companies have far more lobbying power than the BCSS which explains the exemptions.
The UK CITES import permit is not valid without an US CITES export permit and, unless things have changed since the lockdown period, the UK won't issue their CITES import permit without sight of the US CITES export permit. By making the trade in artificially propagated plants so difficult, it increases the demand for illegally collected habitat plants, the opposite of what CITES was meant to achieve.

Stuart

[Mike P]

Those making the rules seldom appreciate irony or the laws of unintended consequences.

[Davey246]

When I've brought plants back from the US, all cacti have needed CITES permits, regardless of whether they've been App1 or App2, almost all cacti are covered by CITES apart from grafted plants on Hylocereus or tins of Nopalitos. Large commercial companies have far more lobbying power than the BCSS which explains the exemptions.
The UK CITES import permit is not valid without an US CITES export permit and, unless things have changed since the lockdown period, the UK won't issue their CITES import permit without sight of the US CITES export permit. By making the trade in artificially propagated plants so difficult, it increases the demand for illegally collected habitat plants, the opposite of what CITES was meant to achieve.

Stuart

The US may be different, but elsewhere something like a graft makes no difference at all, CITES papers are still needed - you are still trading the endangered plant - the same logic would mean that rootless plants would be exempt. The same goes even if they are tinned, dried, or cremated. The same goes for hybrids - the higher appendix (lower number) counts - cross an elephant with a house mouse and the hybrid (even if just a cluster of cells in culture), requires an A10.

For instance - lots of birds, perfectly common in captivity but App 1, are not visually sexable -parrots are an excellent example. To get round this, they are routinely DNA-sexed, usually by using a blood smear, sometimes a small feather. The cheapest labs at least used to be in NL and B but samples were stopped by UK customs when they were discovered as they needed A10's. Suddenly, an awful lot of rabbit blood samples were being sent for DNA-sexing.

Legal import/export is not difficult, it is in fact very easy, if long-winded. People just cannot be a#sed.
CITES was and is not aimed at affecting illegal trade in any way, it is aimed at controlling LEGAL trade. Domestic laws and regulations etc. are there (or not) to control illegal trade, be that illegal collection, sale, import, export or whatever.
Does anyone imagine that if wildlife trade were free, free of CITES, that very many more wild populations would not be gone or in far more parlous a state than currently? Free rein on Aztekium and Ariocarpus, elepahnts and rhinos, and much besides?

[Stuart]

The CITES website lists the exemptions, it applies to all countries that have signed up to CITES. The exemptions have come about through lobbying from countries that have commercial interest in exporting 'cactus products'. That's why Hylocereus grafts and nopalitos and, from memory, I think Aloe Vera products are on the list. The exemptions don't really affect our hobby but it shows that individual countries like South Korea with commercial interests can influence CITES legislation. Unfortunately the BCSS can't.

Stuart

[Davey246]

Aloe vera is unknown as a plant in the wild - the last time I read anything about it, it was thought to be a hybrid of ancient and unknown origin.

Correct, countries can set quotas for international trade (export) in wild-collected examples of any endangered (as defined by CITES) species native to that contry. They require A10 cert's unless, in the UK, are covered by an open general licence. It has nothing at all to do with lobbying, neither is CITES any form of legislation - it is an international convention, to which far from all nations are signed-up to. You are getting lots of things mixed up. Any country can ask that any of their native species be added to any of the appendices, even if in other countries, the species is common (which is surprisingly common). Countries that are not signatories to CITES neither issue nor recognise A10's and exports from them of endangered species will not be accepted by signtory countries.

Quotas etc. are why there have been TV programmes where certain things (usualy pelts/skins etc., often reptile skins that can come from the wild or from farms) are argued over because of where they originated, or did not originate. They whole thing is full of flaws, but better than nothing. One W African contry has a minute population of African grey parrots but used to set a huge quota, which was generally met - they birds were trapped in a neighbouring country where they were protected................. No law or regulation is perfect.

Grafts are not exempt under CITES, but any country can deem them to be so, even though to do so would be lunacy - dig up 500 Aztekium from the wild, graft them and all would be legal.

[Stuart]

This is the current list of CITES exempt cacti:

All species in the Family Cactaceae are CITES-listed except Pereskia spp., Pereskiopsis spp. and Quiabentia spp.

Artificially propagated specimens of the following hybrids and/or cultivars are also exempt from CITES controls:
- Hatiora x graeseri;

- Schlumbergera x buckleyi;

- Schlumbergera russelliana x Schlumbergera truncata;

- Schlumbergera orssichiana x Schlumbergera truncata;

- Schlumbergera opuntioides x Schlumbergera truncata;

- Schlumbergera truncata (cultivars);

- Cactaceae spp. colour mutants grafted on the following grafting stocks Harrisia 'Jusbertii', Hylocereus trigonus or Hylocereus undatus;

- Opuntia microdasys (cultivars).

They're all traded commercially in large quantities and include the Hylocereus grafts, mostly from Korea, that I mentioned, other than the odd Schlumbergera, there's nothing much that crosses over to the collectable plant market.

Stuart

[Davey246]

Only colour mutants are exempt when grafted. Grafted cacti in general are most certainly not. As most of the long-established coloured plants have no chlorophyll, or next to none, they could be nothing except cultivated plants. It is interesting that colour mutants are listed, but not variegates, but who would want a "discussion" with anyone at Heathrow, or wherever, as to the differences.

Only App. 1 need what is known as an A10 in the UK.

Moving to another genus entirely, the last that I heard was that Cosmos atrosanguineus is extinct in the wild and I would be surprised if that was not CITES App 1, but that does not stop free trade in cultivated plants, in this case due to the vast numbers in cultivation.

[Pattock]

Finally, after an exhausting series of emails where I had to nitpick and correct every reply, I got a reply from APHA/DEFRA consistent with the guidance published on the website:

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Dear Pat,

My apologies, cacti and succulents seed imports will require a phytosanitary certificate for EU imports into GB from the 01/07/2022.

Kind regards,

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[MatDz]

Finally, after an exhausting series of emails where I had to nitpick and correct every reply, I got a reply from APHA/DEFRA consistent with the guidance published on the website:

**************************************************************************************************************************************
Dear Pat,

My apologies, cacti and succulents seed imports will require a phytosanitary certificate for EU imports into GB from the 01/07/2022.

Kind regards,

***************************************************************************************************************************************

That makes the two of us, I consider it carved in stone!