The price of some seeds...

[edds]

I was browsing through some threads on Lithops and came across some describing 'Fred's Redhorn'. They look great, I wonder if seed is available? A quick Google and a listing comes up on eBay for 10 seeds.

Great I think and then I click on the link...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-seeds-Lit ... tryapp=dlp

£50 for 10 seeds!!!

They're nice but £5 a seed!?!

[Tina]

and you never know if thats what you will actually get & do they always come true from seed ?, others could say not me. You could get freds greenhorns

[ChrisR]

It really is buyer beware these days as so many have jumped on the selling bandwagon. Steven Hammer recently told me of a guy in Florida who has been selling ANY Lithops lesliei seed and labelling it 'Fred's Redhorn' - explaining that the colour change occurs later!

So much of all types of succulent seeds out of China are coming up as grass from reports I see on Facebook. An Ebay seller in Miami who has stolen some of my cono photos to use as bait for his sales is offering (and selling) the most improbable amounts of seeds which I guarantee won't match the images.

[iann]

Fred's Greenhorn would be nice Could probably charge £10 a seed for that

Fred's Redhorn, and some other names that seem to be in use, is a surprisingly stable cultivar though, considering it is a relatively new hybrid. I have never had a seedling fail to come through with the full intense colour. The red shows up on the seed leaves within a few weeks even under fluorescent lights, so don't believe any tall tales. Have to be careful with pollination because the colour mutants tend to be recessive (or something more complex, but either way the colour rarely comes through if they're crossed). Flower colour variants are doubly buyer-beware, almost impossible to tell what they are for several years.

[Aiko]

With these prices, it is probably best to become a member of the Mesemb Study Group (MSG), where you can get seeds for 30 pennies to a pound in the annual seed list. Well worth the money.

The February bulletin of the MSG will (should) be out soon, which contains the annual seed list. I have had a sneak preview of the seed list, but could not spot a Fred's Redhorn on it. Maybe next year? But still some nice red or purple coloured ones for those that like them.

[Terry S.]

I have struggled to produce seed from the red cultivars of L. lesliei: 'Fred's Redhead', 'Fred's Redhorn' and 'Jambouree' which are really all much of a muchness. They seem to be more reluctant to flower than ordinary lesliei and when you do get a seed capsule, the seeds are so large on this species that there are not a great many seeds in each capsule.

[BrianMc]

My 'Fred's Redhorn' were from the MSG seed list. None are yet flowering plants, but of the 5 that made it past seedling stage 4 are red and 1 is a typical L.lesliei brown

In a recent (last year)sowing of three 'Fred's Redhead' seeds from the MSG, 2 germinated and both were brown.

It just goes to show, that even with quality seed from a good source, these a.c.f. don't always come true.
So purchasing seed on EBay and paying a premium could be a very disappointing exercise.

My experience of growing other a.c.f. such as Hammeruby, Aquamarine etc, sowing seed 20 years ago yielded pretty poor numbers of a.c.f. compared to normal appearance plants. Sowing seed of these cultivars more recently is producing much better numbers of a.c.f. , so on the whole, with time and careful pollinating, cultivars should become more stabilised

Incidentally, £5 a seed is peanuts compared to some conophytum recently sold on that auction site. 10 seeds of Conophytum youngii sold for £420

[iann]

I'm not convinced that I've ever grown a proper 'Fred's Redhead'. My best plant is fairly red in the spring but browns out almost completely in the summer. Here's my unconvincing plant:

In contrast 'Fred's Redhorn' that I started from MSG seed was easy and 100% red.

They flower reliably:

Second generation seedlings start green and turn strongly red within a few weeks. Look closely!

I don't think the 'Fred's Redhorn' name has ever been published formally. It comes from a cross with 'Fred's Redhead' made and stabilised by Steven Hammer. The Lithops Scrapbook says 'Jambouree' is the same thing, also unpublished. I've got no idea where that name came from.

[wildedges]

It really is buyer beware these days as so many have jumped on the selling bandwagon. Steven Hammer recently told me of a guy in Florida who has been selling ANY Lithops lesliei seed and labelling it 'Fred's Redhorn' - explaining that the colour change occurs later!

So much of all types of succulent seeds out of China are coming up as grass from reports I see on Facebook. An Ebay seller in Miami who has stolen some of my cono photos to use as bait for his sales is offering (and selling) the most improbable amounts of seeds which I guarantee won't match the images.

I've been watching a documentary on Youtube about the Amazon Spheres building in Seattle. It's a pretty amazing building but I can't escape the irony of how it's paid for by Amazon getting commission from all the fake plants and seed sellers that are all over their website.

[edds]

Jambouree are $90 for 10 seeds on Mesa Garden (and they're out of stock!) So £50 for 10 including postage isn't half bad!