Ideal Soil/Substrate Mix

[HaoBao]

Do you think white vinegar would be the best thing to use to lower the PH?

I asked on Reddit and some of the good haworthia growers there that use inorganic soil use a fertiliser with a higher ratio of Nitrogen so I’m still unsure what’s best for me. Ideally I’d Keep an inorganic mix too so it dries quicker but I want to make sure the nutrients are balanced and they aren’t missing anything.

Does anyone else use the ericaceous soil/coir or test the PH of their substrate/water?

[el48tel]

I have read that other growers lower the pH of their irrigation water using white wine vinegar or spirit vinegar. I do not.
I have read that Haworthia are heavy nitrogen feeders. I heavy feed my Haworthia with nitrogen.
I have a combined pH and moisture meter which I use when unsure.

[esp]

For small scale growing, vinegar is cheap enough and safe and convenient, so if you want to adjust pH it seems a reasonable choice.
I just use Birmingham tap water for most watering, although most plants get plenty of rainwater at some stage during the summer.
I do have a feeling that plants that go for long periods without repotting or rainwater soaking slow down, so long term build up of minerals when I've only used tap water is possibly an issue.

[juster]

In the last 5 years or so I changed my potting mix to multipurpose ericaceous compost mixed with perlite, mainly because I wanted to keep the weight down; the plants do well in it. At about the same time I was advised to use white vinegar (not white wine vinegar) to lower the pH for S American plants. I don't always remember to do it, but again I think they benefit.

[HaoBao]

I have been messaging some haworthia growers and they say they use a 3-1-2 ratio for their fertiliser when using inorganic soil. They also use it for other plants too. It makes me wonder, why the Chempak 8 is recommended so often when its ratio is 12.5-25-25? I don’t know enough about the subject myself but when two different things are stated it makes me think somethings not right.

For the PH level of the water I’m going to order some test strips I think. Try and use rain water when I can and adjust the PH with some white vinegar. I don’t think the akadama would affect the PH too much as I read it was fairly neutral but I’ll try some experiments too. If I use tap water and treat it with vinegar I guess there is still a problem of minerals building up even if the PH was ok? The haworthia growers said that the water soluble fertilisers tended to reduce the PH too a bit.

I’ve got two echeveria cante’s that were struggling and recently beheaded, if they re-root I could put them in different soil mixes to see if there’s a difference. Put one in ericaceous soil and the other in akadama.

Thank you all again

[MatDz]

This might partially be urban myths and I will definitely simplify things, but I'll happily test my (theoretical) knowledge here.

In general, nitrogen is responsible for the "green growth", so it is not so loved in the C&S community, phosphorus for photosynthesis and energy production (and storage?), and potassium for fertility, disease resistance and healthy root system. Haworthia growers are strange folks in general (which other plant, except maybe Lithops, has thousands of named hybrids and cultivars?!), but the overall idea I got is they like their roots BIG (K) and leaves thicccck (N), why they also like diseases (low P) is a mystery to me, but maybe Haworthias don't need that much of it - not all plants are made equal. The goals also might be slightly different for different plants.

Chempak 8 is recommended mostly for C&S around here, which I believe to be right, especially in not so ideal light conditions of the UK (and my living room), as it should prompt the "upright" growth slightly less than a balanced, or low P feed.

Acidic pH (5.5-6.5?) is meant to improve nutrients intake, which was mentioned during at least two BCSS talks last year, but I'd risk saying it's the last among growing factors that should be addressed, if at all.

Again, this is mostly theoretical, so I'd happily stand corrected if proven otherwise!

PS: Got ya! https://www.reddit.com/r/haworthia/comm ... dama_what/

[HaoBao]

You found me haha, I’m still trying to get my head around all this. And yes, haworthia growers do seem a bit different, they are like the opposite of the ‘moonstone’ crowd. Every type of slightly round pachyphytum gets called ‘moonstone’ haha and they all agree happily. Whereas the haworthia crowd want to know what street the great grandparent plant lived. When they grow nice looking plants though and say they use a completely different fertiliser it makes me question the keep it simple mantra. I mean, I do want to keep it simple, but I also want the plants to be their best. An example would be Edds telling me to water my Aloe Polyphylla more as they like much more water than my other plants. That simple bit of info meant the plants look much better now. I was keeping it simple by treating them the same as others and they looked awful. Same as Paul D telling me he keeps his sulcorebutias in an inorganic mix compared to rebutias. These are the kind of tips I’d like more of. I know everyone’s setup is different, greenhouse, indoors, windowsill etc.. and soil preference too. But a relative tip, like that type want more water than that other type means you can use it for whatever setup you’ve got.

I think this subject of soil/setups etc.. might be easier if someone who is really good at growing Agaves could say what they use; someone who grows echeveria well says what they use etc.. and if they grow other types well too, do they treat them differently? If someone has all sorts of plants and grows them all well do they use the same setup?

Makes me wonder if there are particular members that are famous/regarded as experts for each type of succulent?

From my fairly short time on the forum I know of Tina growing lots of great Agave, Terry S for Lithops and Conophytums, Paul D for Rebutia and Weingartia, I heard of Derek Tribble for Crassula but I haven’t seen any pictures and he doesn’t seem active on the forum. I am sure there are others that I don’t know about too, like I heard Ralph has good plants too but I haven’t seen them. I think what I’m after is the tips for how to treat them differently relative to one another.

Are there any other people I should look out for to see what they do for the different ones? Echeveria, Pachyphytum and Crassula experts would be a good start for me to look at.

[MatDz]

On Crassula, I find this group be of a rather high quality for Facebook, but don't see many posts on soil and general growing in captivity advice, but just see the photos in "Media": https://www.facebook.com/groups/959657550791882

[Terry S.]

As well as the mesembs, I have lots of cacti and haworthioides too. They are all grown using the same materials, although different groups are obviously watered at different times and mesembs get less liquid feed than the others.

One thing to watch out for when using inert substrates for growing your plants is the nature of the nitrogen in your feed as well as the overall composition. Urea requires soil micro-organisms to be converted into inorganic forms of nitrogen which the plants can absorb. So high levels of urea in the feed might mean that nitrogen is not available to your plants. One advantage of Chempak 8 is that all the nitrogen is in the form of nitrate and ammonium ions and directly available to the plants. It also contains so-called trace elements.

Traditionally succulent growers have always recommended using low nitrogen, high potassium, fertilisers to encourage compact, colourful spiny plants, rather than green lettuces. Certain people now query that advice and in some cases it might be that low nitrogen levels can be growth-inhibiting. The 1:2:2 balance of Chempak 8 is quite a good compromise.

[Herts Mike]

For my Stapeliads, 2 parts peat based (sorry, not PC), 1 part moler cat litter (Sanicat Pink), 3 parts vermiculite.
They also grow well in pure Sanicat but I have watering difficulties with that.

For the Aloes 1 part peat based, 1 part John Innes 3, 1 part Alpine grit, 1 part Sanicat.