Looking after members interests.

[ragamala]

That said, I reckon it's a convenient way of bringing the Society some useful column-inches, not least because it plays well in newspaper articles and these articles probably get 'shared' quite a bit.

A good point, Phil, as long as we understand it is publicity-oriented and members are not encouraged to think it will change international government policies.

[Pattock]

Raising hopes through lobbying or petititions to a UK government which no longer has control of the issues is not helpful. The time for that is long gone.

The UK Government has control of duties, certificates and restrictions concerning imports into the UK. I don't think that the EU are going to object if the UK allows them freer trade into the UK than the EU allows into the EU from the UK.

I doubt the UK Government will agree as they wanted to throttle EU imports into the UK to improve the balance of trade. They will probably blame the EU.

[Pattock]

Pattock, as for a potential figurehead this is her Twitter if anyone wants to contact

As she has 600,000 Twitter followers and I have a slightly bewildered 2, I am not sure I can play this social media game correctly.

[ragamala]

Raising hopes through lobbying or petititions to a UK government which no longer has control of the issues is not helpful. The time for that is long gone.

The UK Government has control of duties, certificates and restrictions concerning imports into the UK. I don't think that the EU are going to object if the UK allows them freer trade into the UK than the EU allows into the EU from the UK.

I doubt the UK Government will agree as they wanted to throttle EU imports into the UK to improve the balance of trade. They will probably blame the EU.

I think the point as I see it is that if the EU require suppliers to provide phytos etc when exporting material it doesn't matter a toss how the UK customs respond to imports. The onus is on the EU suppliers to obey the EU rules. The idea that EU legislation can be turned a blind eye to because the UK might employ a laissez-faire approach is entirely unrealistic, and in my opinion shows a limited understanding of the situation.

[Pattock]

I think the point as I see it is that if the EU require suppliers to provide phytos etc when exporting material it doesn't matter a toss how the UK customs respond to imports. The onus is on the EU suppliers to obey the EU rules. The idea that EU legislation can be turned a blind eye to because the UK might employ a laissez-faire approach is entirely unrealistic, and in my opinion shows a limited understanding of the situation.

My understanding is that a phytosanitary certificate is provided by the exporting country or bloc of countries or a designated organisation within that country or bloc of countries but is not required by them for export from that country or bloc of countries. The phytosanitary certificate is required for import by the country to which the plant material is being imported.

http://www.fao.org/3/y3241e/y3241e06.htm

[MatDz]

I think the point as I see it is that if the EU require suppliers to provide phytos etc when exporting material it doesn't matter a toss how the UK customs respond to imports. The onus is on the EU suppliers to obey the EU rules. The idea that EU legislation can be turned a blind eye to because the UK might employ a laissez-faire approach is entirely unrealistic, and in my opinion shows a limited understanding of the situation.

This sounds more like the CITES certificates, which I believe are needed both for export and import of plants covered.

On the PC side, sellers always remind to check the import rules of the buyer's country to see whether a PC is needed, no one really cares what one is sending out.

Edit: Removed the triple-nested quotation.

[HaoBao]

Pattock, as for a potential figurehead this is her Twitter if anyone wants to contact

As she has 600,000 Twitter followers and I have a slightly bewildered 2, I am not sure I can play this social media game correctly.

Don’t worry Pattock, I saw some other wannabe influencer got more followers after assaulting a taxi driver recently so it’s not a good indication of character.

Maya Jama’s probably not the best figurehead anyway if she believes in the hashtag #DearLocal. Not sure why it was used on an article for international trade. Did nobody check that?

[ragamala]

My understanding is that a phytosanitary certificate is provided by the exporting country or bloc of countries or a designated organisation within that country or bloc of countries but is not required by them for export from that country or bloc of countries. The phytosanitary certificate is required for import by the country to which the plant material is being imported.

http://www.fao.org/3/y3241e/y3241e06.htm

Many thanks for that. The slight problem is that that is a generic advice from the appropriate department within the UN. It is not legally binding, as best I know. It is not EU regulation. But you may well be perfectly right that this applies and EU regulation is still directed principally at imports. The fact remains that EU suppliers are currently bound by this. If the UK were to relax its rules would suppliers take the risk of facing claims if they failed to issue phytos? And phytos isn't the end of the matter. We have Cites and VAT to contend with. Many of the EU suppliers we deal with are small businesses who can not afford to take riks.

I believe attempting to avoid this regulation is misguided, even if on a small scale. I find it hard to believe the UK government would agree to relax rules, so by all means propose a petition (not easy to define the details - phytos? Cites? VAT turnoffs for EU suppliers) but I feel you are petitioning in the wind.

Maybe efforts are better directed in the current situation into efforts such as we have seen admirably in this forum, of eg pooling orders to minimise impact.

[ragamala]

On the PC side, sellers always remind to check the import rules of the buyer's country to see whether a PC is needed, no one really cares what one is sending out.

Thanks Mat that's right and practical, except no small supplier in the EU wants to get involved in disputes if arrivals in the UK are blocked for whatever reason. I referred earlier to phytos etc - the etc adds quite a bit to a supplier's obligations.

[MatDz]

On the PC side, sellers always remind to check the import rules of the buyer's country to see whether a PC is needed, no one really cares what one is sending out.

Thanks Mat that's right and practical, except no small supplier in the EU wants to get involved in disputes if arrivals in the UK are blocked for whatever reason. I referred earlier to phytos etc - the etc adds quite a bit to a supplier's obligations.

But why would the imports be blocked if the PCs & etc. are no longer needed? If they are able to fulfill all the paperwork now, it can only be easier if we try to do something about it. The USA was able to help the hobbyists by introducing low volume allowances mentioned earlier, why the other "acronym country" couldn't?