The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
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For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation, exhibition & science of cacti & other succulents only.
Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
- ChrisR
- BCSS Member
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- https://www.behance.net/kuchnie-warszawa
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The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
Chris Rodgerson- Sheffield UK BCSS 27098
See www.conophytum.com for ca.4000 photos and growing info on Conophytum, Crassula & Adromischus.
See www.conophytum.com for ca.4000 photos and growing info on Conophytum, Crassula & Adromischus.
- KarlR
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- Location: Kristiansand, Norway
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
It's good they caught them, but I'm guessing these are all poor locals going by the photos.
My thought has always been that the regulations on international plant trade need to be loosened to facilitate easier trade of cultivated plants and seeds. The demand seems to far outstrip the supply, particularly so in the Far East. But then, I don't know if it's the case that if international plant trade was much easier for cultivated plants, that this would reduce the pressure on habitat plants. Maybe there is just a very large amount of people who want habitat collected plants and are not satisfied with cultivated specimens even if they were available. Or is it just a matter of supply of cultivated material not meeting demand?
My thought has always been that the regulations on international plant trade need to be loosened to facilitate easier trade of cultivated plants and seeds. The demand seems to far outstrip the supply, particularly so in the Far East. But then, I don't know if it's the case that if international plant trade was much easier for cultivated plants, that this would reduce the pressure on habitat plants. Maybe there is just a very large amount of people who want habitat collected plants and are not satisfied with cultivated specimens even if they were available. Or is it just a matter of supply of cultivated material not meeting demand?
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
For successful protection the cooperation of local people is paramount. If they are allowed to grow plants from harvested seeds they will become interested in protecting the wild specimens.
Problem of course is to tell cultivated plants from wild specimens. The latter providing relatively effortless profits especially when slowly growing species are concerned.
Problem of course is to tell cultivated plants from wild specimens. The latter providing relatively effortless profits especially when slowly growing species are concerned.
- KarlR
- BCSS Member
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- Joined: 13 Oct 2014
- Branch: None
- Country: Norway
- Location: Kristiansand, Norway
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
It would be easy to implement a jobs program, training locals to protect habitats, recognize all the species, serve as guides etc. Basically creating stable, well paid jobs for them. But such a program would cost money and it's rarely in a politician's or party's own interest to fight for something like that. Won't get you voters or power.
Failing that, state subsidied nurseries producing seeds and plants for the international market at low prices might work. These would of course have all the necessary paperwork. But all that would cost a fair bit too.
I've never been against small scale seed collection in habitat, but the kind of stripping of whole populations that we've seen examples of from e.g. South Africa and Mexico only seems to increase in frequency, even though regulations on international trade is stricter than ever. So these regulations don't seem to work in that regard. Or, at least, they are not sufficient to deal with the problem.
There's also the unfortunate side effect that making it so difficult to trade across borders means that fewer nurseries are able to survive, and/or may have to increase prices to survive in a smaller market. It's also very hard for a small scale seller to support their hobby with some plant sales when regulations on international trade in practice makes it so difficult. All this only serves to drive up prices and increase scarcity of the most sought after plants.
Failing that, state subsidied nurseries producing seeds and plants for the international market at low prices might work. These would of course have all the necessary paperwork. But all that would cost a fair bit too.
I've never been against small scale seed collection in habitat, but the kind of stripping of whole populations that we've seen examples of from e.g. South Africa and Mexico only seems to increase in frequency, even though regulations on international trade is stricter than ever. So these regulations don't seem to work in that regard. Or, at least, they are not sufficient to deal with the problem.
There's also the unfortunate side effect that making it so difficult to trade across borders means that fewer nurseries are able to survive, and/or may have to increase prices to survive in a smaller market. It's also very hard for a small scale seller to support their hobby with some plant sales when regulations on international trade in practice makes it so difficult. All this only serves to drive up prices and increase scarcity of the most sought after plants.
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
History is repeating itself. Not so long ago big game was brought to the brink of extinction by trophy hunters.
- el48tel
- BCSS Member
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- Joined: 04 Aug 2018
- Branch: LEEDS
- Country: UK
- Role within the BCSS: Member
- Location: Leeds
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
Absolutely.
But consider ..... this might satisfy the demands of this year. The "must have" because my neighbour has one. How many times do you read or hear, "it's gone onto my wish list"? Where there's a demand, there are people prepared to take the risk to satisfy the demand .... and that to fill the bellies of their families.
Endeavouring to grow Aylostera, Echinocereus, Echinopsis, Gymnocalycium, Matucana, Rebutia, and Sulcorebutia. Fallen out of love with Lithops and aggravated by Aeoniums.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
- Ernie
- BCSS Member
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Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
While there are people who buy habitat collected plants, some who post on this forum, there will always be those willing to dig them up to make money and those that trade in them. Yes, as I have said before I collected habitat collected plants before I woke up. I don't want to upset anyone but to repeat, the BCSS needs to take a lead and make it clear habitat collected plants or even those suspected to be will be excluded from the national show.
I think the situation is a bit like people watching tv and seeing a programme about excess speed killing people. Sitting there saying its terrrible something needs to be done then next day getting into car and doing the same thing.
Its little use the society rightfully condemning the practice of buying habitat collected plants without doing something positive about it. Those who collect habitat collected/rare plants do so so they can be one up on others and show them. Take away the incentive and they may not be so keen to do it.
It won't be long before it will be socially unacceptable to have such plants.
Fact- its collectors of plants who are driving the destruction of the wildlife. Much like its the collectors of exotic animals/birds, both alive and and as trophies to be hung on a wall that is driving down the numbers of such animals. That's not to exclude all the other means humans have at their disposal to destroy the plant, not least breeding there's too many of us for dwindling resources.
I think the situation is a bit like people watching tv and seeing a programme about excess speed killing people. Sitting there saying its terrrible something needs to be done then next day getting into car and doing the same thing.
Its little use the society rightfully condemning the practice of buying habitat collected plants without doing something positive about it. Those who collect habitat collected/rare plants do so so they can be one up on others and show them. Take away the incentive and they may not be so keen to do it.
It won't be long before it will be socially unacceptable to have such plants.
Fact- its collectors of plants who are driving the destruction of the wildlife. Much like its the collectors of exotic animals/birds, both alive and and as trophies to be hung on a wall that is driving down the numbers of such animals. That's not to exclude all the other means humans have at their disposal to destroy the plant, not least breeding there's too many of us for dwindling resources.
'Eternity is but a a brief moment away'
- Stuart
- BCSS Member
- Posts: 1951
- Joined: 11 Jan 2007
- Branch: BRIGHTON, HOVE & District
- Country: England
Re: The latest of many recent poaching arrests in South Africa
Sadly, anything the BCSS does isn't going to have any effect on those countries that do nothing to discourage trade in habitat plants. I can't think of any way to stop this.
Stuart
Stuart