This has grown from some Sedum Society Seed but I don't think it's what it says it is!
This is from seed sent out from Sedum rubrotinctum ex.'Aurora' and while I knew it was unlikely to come true from seed I thought it might give some interesting results.
Only 1 germinated and this is the result and it is flowering already!
It is still in the 4cm pot I used to sow the seed in to give you an idea of size. The flowers are maybe 3mm natural spread. It's already setting seed pods so I'm currently removing those in case they explosively deliver seed all over my conservatory!
Any ideas what it is or even what genus so I can narrow it down? Seeing as both parents of X rubrotinctum are yellow flowered I can't imagine it has actually come from that, but who knows!
Definitely not x rubrotinctum. 'Aurora' is a chimera, so not much chance of coming true from seed. The variegated cells would at best produce a chlorophyll free plant that isn't going to survive. I suppose theoretically it could be grafted. This looks like an annual Sedum. I wondered about a somewhat etiolated Sedum creticum. Etiolated growing indoors rather than outdoors. I've emailed the link to Ray Stephenson - if anyone can give an ID, it will be him. Not to say that other suggestions aren't welcome...
Thanks Mike, I'll have a look at cretocum. It would likely be etiolated - it's been in a shadier spot in my conservatory being in such a small pot still.
edds wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:51 pm
Could it be Sedum cepea?
I would have given you full marks, Ed, but one deducted for the spelling mistake.
Here's Ray's response: Crassulaceae seeds are minute, very lightweight and despite cleaning the sieves after each batch has been sorted, have a habit of clinging. As a result “strays” are not unusual. The plant in question has whorls of 4 leaves/bracts on inflorescences which narrows it down to Sedum cepaea. Oddly the species is normally biennial, in the first year producing only a flat rosette of leaves. “Abnormal???” conditions have caused it to flower in its first year. Therefore, being hapaxanthic, it will flower itself to death. Allow to self-seed and next year – the owner shown have a little pot-full of rosettes.
MikeT wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:52 pm
Definitely not x rubrotinctum. 'Aurora' is a chimera, so not much chance of coming true from seed. T
I'm curious about this. If x rubrotinctum is a hybrid doesn't that mean that the seeds would likely be sterile anyway. Or was this a batch of seeds taken from one of the parent plants after cross pollination in the hope of making the Aurora varient? I tried growing Aurora from cuttings but the variegation was unstable and they didn't do well. I'm overrun with the standard x rubrotinctum though.
I didn't take advantage of the seed service this year but most of my cuttings from the exchange have done really well. I'm now starting to panic about where to keep them all over the winter.
wildedges wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:46 am
I'm curious about this. If x rubrotinctum is a hybrid doesn't that mean that the seeds would likely be sterile anyway.
I am sure you have heard recent studies showing that humans are the descendants of ancient love-matches between different species of Homo. In complex animals the barriers preventing interspecies hybridisation tend to be much greater than in plants. There are still barriers but many plants regarded as separate species or even separate genera will produce fertile offspring.
If it is Sedum cepaea, you might be interested to know that it was used by the ancient Romans in medicine. If the identification of the plant in Pliny is correct, which looks probable.
edds wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:51 pm
Could it be Sedum cepea?
I would have given you full marks, Ed, but one deducted for the spelling mistake.
Here's Ray's response: Crassulaceae seeds are minute, very lightweight and despite cleaning the sieves after each batch has been sorted, have a habit of clinging. As a result “strays” are not unusual. The plant in question has whorls of 4 leaves/bracts on inflorescences which narrows it down to Sedum cepaea. Oddly the species is normally biennial, in the first year producing only a flat rosette of leaves. “Abnormal???” conditions have caused it to flower in its first year. Therefore, being hapaxanthic, it will flower itself to death. Allow to self-seed and next year – the owner shown have a little pot-full of rosettes.
Thanks Mike and Ray and darn it with the spelling!!!
Strange about it being biennial usually. It's been under LED lights alongside daylight, the same conditions as all my other succulent seedlings until they were pricked out. I shall pot it up into a slightly bigger pot and hopefully let it self-seed in there and see what next year brings!
wildedges wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:46 am
I'm curious about this. If x rubrotinctum is a hybrid doesn't that mean that the seeds would likely be sterile anyway. Or was this a batch of seeds taken from one of the parent plants after cross pollination in the hope of making the Aurora varient? I tried growing Aurora from cuttings but the variegation was unstable and they didn't do well. I'm overrun with the standard x rubrotinctum though.
I didn't take advantage of the seed service this year but most of my cuttings from the exchange have done really well. I'm now starting to panic about where to keep them all over winter.
In my experience it is more likely that a hybrid plant will be at least partially fertile than completely infertile. Some won't cross but if they do then they're often fertile across many plants families.
Where they aren't (certainly in the hardy geranium I'm more familiar with) it can often be a mismatch of chromosome numbers that causes issues.
I have the same fear, mainly from everything growing so much, especially all these seedlings!
wildedges wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:46 am
I'm curious about this. If x rubrotinctum is a hybrid doesn't that mean that the seeds would likely be sterile anyway. Or was this a batch of seeds taken from one of the parent plants after cross pollination in the hope of making the Aurora varient? I tried growing Aurora from cuttings but the variegation was unstable and they didn't do well. I'm overrun with the standard x rubrotinctum though.
Some hybrids are readily fertile. Euphorbia obesa, symmetrica and meloformis hybridise easily, and the offspring readily cross with each other or backcross with any parents.
'Aurora' is a chimera: normal x rubrotinctum cells with a surface layer of variegated cells. So seed might produce seedlings with no chlorophyll, which will die (I suppose in theory could be grafted), normal x rubrotinctum, or something between x rubrotinctum and one of its parents.
I find cuttings root easily and stay true, the stock left behind will offset and remain true. Leaf cuttings produce a range of new plants. Some white, pigment free, plants, which soon die; some plain x rubrotinctum, some plants with bits of white growth and bits of normal green/red growth. These latter do tend to look a bit of a mess rather than nice variegates. It's because there are bits of growth of each of the 2 cell types, rather than the variegated cells forming a uniform surface layer over the normal cells.
