el48tel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:01 pm
Since you have applied to PayPal to escalate the matter, and their due process gives you a date by which they will have carried out their investigation, would it not be right to wait, and allow this to happen before blackening the business, for which you could be considered as being libellous.
If MatDz's original post is purely a list of actual occurrences, how can it be libelous?
Libel requires a false statement to have been made.
Giving a negative review with reasonable justification is not libel.
Until we know the outcome of the PayPal investigation. we are NOT in possession of all of the facts.
1. we only have MatDz's version
2. the company has the right to reply
3. it would be better to take a real legal opinion
4. TonyR's suggestion makes sense
Are saying if we are unhappy with customer service we shouldn't post about it here?
In response to your points :
1. Are you implying MatDz is lying?
2. Unless MatDz is lying, the company has had plenty of time to respond to him
3. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure "Libel requires a false statement to have been made" is correct.
I'm not planning on participating in any legal action over this, I'm just posting on a forum post.
Getting a "real legal opinion" seems like overkill for that purpose.
4. A phone call could be a good next step, but it shouldn't have been required.
esp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:13 pm
If MatDz's original post is purely a list of actual occurrences, how can it be libelous?
Libel requires a false statement to have been made.
Giving a negative review with reasonable justification is not libel.
Until we know the outcome of the PayPal investigation. we are NOT in possession of all of the facts.
1. we only have MatDz's version
2. the company has the right to reply
3. it would be better to take a real legal opinion
4. TonyR's suggestion makes sense
Are saying if we are unhappy with customer service we shouldn't post about it here?
In response to your points :
1. Are you implying MatDz is lying?
2. Unless MatDz is lying, the company has had plenty of time to respond to him
3. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure "Libel requires a false statement to have been made" is correct.
I'm not planning on participating in any legal action over this, I'm just posting on a forum post.
Getting a "real legal opinion" seems like overkill for that purpose.
4. A phone call could be a good next step, but it shouldn't have been required.
In brief
1 I said nor implied no such words
2 opinion not fact
3 I'm not legally qualified
4 would be my first option
Endeavouring to grow Aylostera, Echinocereus, Echinopsis, Gymnocalycium, Matucana, Rebutia, and Sulcorebutia. Fallen out of love with Lithops and aggravated by Aeoniums.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
I am not sure its a good idea to start these threads until all avenues of communication have been explored.There may be very good reasons why hes not communicating. I absolutely understand the frustration but before a dealer is condemned perhaps more efforts are needed. I have tried ringing his mobile. No reply. His facebook page has not been updated for several weeks so maybe there's an acceptable reason for whats going on(or not as the case may be).
Warnings about a possible bad dealer are a good idea but only after its clear there is good reason to black them.
Hope it gets sorted soon.
An example of a good dealer. recently I had a bad plant arrive via ebay. Complained and was immediately refunded with no request to return the plant.
As Chris said I hope he's alright. I've bought plants from him in the past, mainly selling on plants from someone's collection. Good plants.
Never purchased from the Web site as stated its not updated.
Calling him sounds like good advice. Always was decent with me.
I've met him a couple of times at auctions, never been to his nursery.
Hope you get it all sorted.
I saw Craig on 26th June at the Bristol Branch plant fare at Portishead. He was in good form and as well as cacti and succulents, he also had some BEF pots for sale. Upon chatting with him I discovered that he’d taken over the BEF pots from Manchester branch, and consequently I announced this in the July eNews. His contact details were given there.
I suggest that the OP tries to phone him as often emails end up in junk (as I have found that seems to be happening with increasing frequency these days) or even doesn’t get through as it’s stopped by span filters depending on which email provider one uses.
I won't be quoting the exact comments, so just a few points on the legal side:
A review is a personal opinion by definition;
Of course listed events present only my side of the story, but there was a month and a half to reply to at least one of my emails;
Again, a month and a half is more than enough to react to multiple attempts of communication via two different media;
I don't like to speak through phone, especially if other means of communication are officially published on the website;
Order emails are not landing in the spam folders; the same for subsequent communication from the same email accounts;
PayPal is the (second to, before small claims court) last resort to sort this out, I don't feel like I need to wait for a resolution from them to express my opinion.
I understand the C&S community might be rather small, but there's nothing to hide here.
I'm more than open to sort this out somehow, but lost my faith at this point.
MatDz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:05 pm
[*] I don't like to speak through phone, especially if other means of communication are officially published on the website;
It is a mobile number and you could text him. No need to speak. It could lead to getting your order, isn't it worth trying?
el48tel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:01 pm
would it not be right to wait, and allow this to happen before blackening the business, for which you could be considered as being libellous.
By definition, Mat's actions cannot be libelous unless he has published untruths.
MatDz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:05 pm
[*] I don't like to speak through phone, especially if other means of communication are officially published on the website;
It is a mobile number and you could text him. No need to speak. It could lead to getting your order, isn't it worth trying?
I don't really feel like convincing people to fulfill their obligations (after holding my money for a month and a half), nor try to justify my opinion here - I simply wanted to express it.
But I'm really glad it sparked some discussion, hopefully the same disappointment will not happen to anyone else, either because of an improved service, or a lack of orders.
