A couple of Aloes in flower

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ralphrmartin
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A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by ralphrmartin » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm

Aloe ellenbeckii (Acquired under the name A. dumetorum) in bud, I suppose rather than flower...
Aloe ellenbeckii.jpg
A. albiflora (hopefully Colin will not poo-poo it as a hybrid).
There's a flower of A. perrieri (acquired as A. bellatula) peeking in at bottom right, and also a flower of an A. 'Pink Lace' which I presume is an A. albiflora hybrid.
Aloe albiflora.jpg
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by Stuart » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:46 pm

Is it just me that gets botrytis on Aloe flowers this time of year. I stopped watering mid-October and most plants are reasonably dry now but with a spell of dull weather I tend to get botrytis on Aloe flowers even though the plants are dry. I've only Tylecodons that I water in the winter and keep the heater fans running through the winter but find that I have to remove flowers on Aloes, Haworthias and Adromischus before botrytis sets in.

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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by BrianMc » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:18 pm

ralphrmartin wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm
Aloe ellenbeckii(Acquired under the name



A. dumetorum is a synonym of ellenbeckii, but I will leave Colin to comment on this as he is always pulling me up about my incorrect use of A.ellenbeckii on my plant which is, allegedly, an un-named Lavranos collection :wink:


ralphrmartin wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm

(hopefully Colin will not poo-poo it as a hybrid).


It looks like pure albiflora to me :smile:

ralphrmartin wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm
There's a flower of A. perrieri (acquired as A. bellatula) peeking in at bottom right



When I first started growing miniature Aloes I thought I knew the difference between the two, however, all the literature I have read seems not to tally with the physical plants I have grown. Perhaps wrongly named plants initially...who knows? Perhaps they should be lumped....? Knowing the amount of hybridising that goes on these days, maybe it is practically impossible to know for sure which is which and if genetically pure.


ralphrmartin wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm
and also a flower of an A. 'Pink Lace' which I presume is an A. albiflora hybrid.


If my memory serves me well, Pink Lace is a John Bleck multiple hybrid. It is not a two species cross. I believe albiflora is in the mix, but I seem to remember a Gasteria being named too!(If that is true!?! as the Pink Lace is fertile).

Stuart wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:46 pm
Is it just me that gets botrytis on Aloe flowers this time of year.

No, I get it too. This year has been particularly bad with all the dull damp weather. I have the fans blowing quite strong at the minute.
Not on all Aloes suffer, but predominantly on the more delicate Madagascan species and their hybrids. Adromischus have been a nightmare this year, and furred up very quickly, as did the smaller crassula blooms once over. I tried some Crassula pollinating this year and pollinated flower stalks don't seem to have gone moody yet (fingers crossed)
Especially interested in Mesembs. small Aloes and South African miniatures and bulbs.
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by Pattock » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:25 pm

Does the botrytis start on the nectar? Perhaps a few winter bees or hoverflies are needed.
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by ralphrmartin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:53 pm

I dont have trouble with Aloes, but I have had problems with botrytis on Adromischus flowers in the past, for sure.

There again, with my Aloes / Haworthias / Adromishus, as soon as the last flowers are over, I cut the flower stalks off a couple of inches above the leaves, which also helps.
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by Colin Walker » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:15 pm

ralphrmartin wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:40 pm
Aloe ellenbeckii (Acquired under the name A. dumetorum) in bud, I suppose rather than flower...

A. albiflora (hopefully Colin will not poo-poo it as a hybrid).
There's a flower of A. perrieri (acquired as A. bellatula) peeking in at bottom right, and also a flower of an A. 'Pink Lace' which I presume is an A. albiflora hybrid.
Hi Ralph,

As Brian has said, your plant is neither Aloe dumetorum nor A. ellenbeckii.

This is Aloe sp. Lavranos & Newton 12170 collected N. of Marsabit, N. Kenya.

The type locality for A. dumetorum is S. of Moyale whilst that for A. ellenbeckii is in Somalia. There are apparently also records from S. Ethiopia.

It was in my view incorrectly distributed as Aloe dumetorum (now a synonym of A. ellenbeckii) which it isn't. IMHO L & N 12170 currently doesn't have a name.

Here is my largest plant of L & N 12170 which for scale is in a 25 cm diam. pan. This plant grows, offsets and flowers very freely, which makes me suspicious that it might be a hybrid.

fullsizeoutput_9cc.jpeg

The other flower spike looks like Aloe albiflora to me but I can't really tell what the plant itself looks like from this shot.
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by ralphrmartin » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:07 pm

Interesting, Colin. My plant is definitely not the same as the one in your picture. Mine has fleshier paler, more translucent leaves. I'll take a picture of the leaves tomorrow when it's light, and post here for further assessment of what it might be. Thanks!

PS The person who gave it to me also gave me an Ornithogalum sp. Somalia at the same time. There's nothing like being hopeful!
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by ralphrmartin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:02 am

Perhaps I was too dogmatic to say it is definitely not the same, but it does look quite different. Mine has also only produced one offset in 13 years.

Here are a couple of photos which show the plant and its leaves. They are very thick, and the upper surface is convex. The flowers haven't opened yet, as its been quite cold since my earlier photo. I should remark it has been grown in full sun - it's not pale or fleshy due to etiolation - but it has been watered recently.
IMG_20201219_085352.jpg
IMG_20201219_085344.jpg
IMG_20201219_085315.jpg
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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by Colin Walker » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:37 am

ralphrmartin wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:02 am
Perhaps I was too dogmatic to say it is definitely not the same, but it does look quite different. Mine has also only produced one offset in 13 years.

Here are a couple of photos which show the plant and its leaves. They are very thick, and the upper surface is convex. The flowers haven't opened yet, as its been quite cold since my earlier photo. I should remark it has been grown in full sun - it's not pale or fleshy due to etiolation - but it has been watered recently.
Hi Ralph,

This is really interesting.

First request: please ask your wife to take good photos when it next flowers. :grin:

Next, I think there's a good chance that this is indeed true A. ellenbeckii which is far less easy to grow, offsets rarely and the buds hence the flowers are different.

As you suggest this is different to the L. & N. collection from N. Kenya which IMHO is not A. ellenbeckii (aka A. dumetorum).

One significant difference appears to be that the corolla has a more pronounced basal swelling in the L. & N. collection.

This all provides a bit more evidence to my hypothesis that L & N 12170 maybe be a hybrid with perhaps A. ellenbeckii as one of the parents.

I also wonder if L. & N. 12170 is a polyploid? Note to self: I need to check on chromosome counts.
Cheers,
Colin

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Re: A couple of Aloes in flower

Post by ralphrmartin » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:42 pm

Thanks Colin. The flowers (well, buds) are certainly attractively coloured.
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