Cintia? or not?

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ralphrmartin
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Cintia? or not?

Post by ralphrmartin » Wed May 12, 2021 7:07 pm

So, here's something for you folk to puzzle over: what's this? It was sold to me by some overexcited Russian chap at ELK as a "new Cintia". It looks quite like a Cintia except it has very fine white spines, and is grass green not olive-brown. When it finally flowered, the flower is not like Cintia at all.

Anyone like to give an opinion as to an id? I've got one from an expert, but I'm not entirely convinced. See what you think.
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by KarlR » Wed May 12, 2021 7:34 pm

Unless the seller felt Cintia knizei is a Weingartia and further felt that Sulcorebutia, Cintia and Weingartia is a potato potato thing, this is not a Cintia. If you look away from epidermis colour and spines, you still have to account for the different flower, and if you disregard that you have to explain the lateral flower position when Cintia knizei has apical flowering.

Maybe at a stretch it could be a Cintia x Sulcorebutia/Weingartia cross, but i wouldn't put money on it.

Maybe a Sulco x Weingartia cross? There are no Weingartia s.s. with this flower colour, is there? But the flowers seem to originate higher up the plant than in Sulcorebutia.

What does the expert propose?
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by fero » Wed May 12, 2021 9:51 pm

Gymnocalicium?
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by Rob » Wed May 12, 2021 10:57 pm

To me it has more of a look of a Weingartia.
I guess the hybrid option cant be discounted at all, it maybe even gives me an idea or two for crosses to try, I have been playing with some Weingartia x Sulcorebutia* crosses in the last few years, some of them have their first buds starting to show.

* I know according to some this isnt now an intergeneric cross but my labels havent changed :wink: :wink:
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ralphrmartin
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by ralphrmartin » Thu May 13, 2021 6:41 pm

The expert says Weingartia trollii, and won't budge.
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by iann » Thu May 13, 2021 7:45 pm

Well that's what the body looks like, but the flower is not standard. A Sulcorebutia flower on a Weingartia? No wonder they just lumped the whole lot and walked away :)
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by ralphrmartin » Thu May 13, 2021 10:29 pm

The spines are much softer than those on Weingartias (sensu strictu) too.
It's not branching (like a Weingartia s.s.)
and it's staying small (like a Cintia).
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by RAYWOODBRIDGE » Sat May 15, 2021 11:32 pm

It does not appear to have enough spines at the growing point to be W. trollii, my first thought was W. neocumingii but as W. trollii is now considered a sub species of W. neocumingii your information is most probably right.
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by fero » Mon May 17, 2021 7:50 pm

IMG_20210517_181354281~2.jpg
Weingatia cumingii v koehresii , not sure if this helps, I wanted to catch it with the flowers open, they look an orange red closed. I'll keep trying.
Spines are similar though many more.
an interesting cross maybe.
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This one has a similar body color and few spines though yellow flowers
IMG_20210211_163753532~2.jpg
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Re: Cintia? or not?

Post by ralphrmartin » Tue May 18, 2021 5:44 pm

All of those have stiff spines, as far as I can see. This plant has really soft flexible spines, like on Rebutia senilis say.

Also, all Weingartia sensu stricto I have seen have flowers in the range white - yellow - orange - scarlet red. (If anyone can show me a pink one, please do!)

This colour of flower can be found in Sulcorebutia-type Weingartias, and also Rebutias.
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Members visiting the Llyn Peninsula are welcome to visit my collection.

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