CITES protected?

[Apicra]

These are indeed awful photos. Thanks ChrisR for taking the trouble to publicise this continuing problem, the scale of which is alarming. Your write-up in the latest Mesemb Study Group Bulletin 37(1) is excellent, as is the accompanying article by Andy Young, which urges us all to do more propagation from seed.

To complete the picture, one wonders what damage is being done to fragile plant habitats by all that digging? Probably just as alarming will be photos of what is left of the otherwise beautiful natural places where succulents have been poached. Andy Young will be presenting a travelogue based upon his latest trip this year to the Richtersveld and Bushmanland at the Zone 6 Convention in NW London at the end of this month. I believe he included a visit to the site of the nursery run by SANParks where the BCSS Conservation Fund has paid for a new poly-tunnel structure to house some of these confiscated succulents. See: https://www.forum.bcss.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=325180

Best wishes,
Derek Tribble

[Ernie]

Its easy, or rather too convenient, to forget that not so many years ago one could visit a Uk nursery and see tray upon tray of bare rooted ex habitat plants. Collected on the continents of Africa and North/south America. No outrage back then! Indeed many collectors, myself included and those who visit this forum, were happy to get their hands on them with no concern for the the habitat. There will be people posting on this forum in recent months/years who have habitat collected plants in their greenhouses yet saying how aweful it is to read about/see pictures of what is currently happening. Its been happening for many decades! I have been very open in admitting that I previously collected many rare habitat collected succulents and when I sold that collection many went to people who visited this forum. A lot went to a dealer who kept some and sold the rest on.
Many BCSS members are as much to blame as other collectors world wide for keeping the trade in habitat collected plants flourishing. I am no longer one of them and find my interest in the plants I now have is in no way diminished.
Hopefully the brexit situation has made it very difficult to get habitat collected plants into the UK.
I have said it before but; BCSS ban plants that are obviously habitat collected from official BCSSl displays!

[MatDz]

Our past faults are no justification for others' present behaviour, burning all plants wild collected years ago won't stop the current poaching.

[el48tel]

Our past faults are no justification for others' present behaviour, burning all plants wild collected years ago won't stop the current poaching.

I agree that

Wrong plus Wrong does not equal Right

But it could be argued that we need to set an example

[Ernie]

I have never advocated destroying habitat collected plants currently in collections. That serves no purposes. If the BCSS actually believes in conservation it ought to be setting an example by making it clear habitat collected plants must not be displayed at official BCSS shows be they the national or regional. As I understand it habitat collected plants are not excluded from this years national show. It sends the wrong message.
The argument that its not possible to determine what is habitat collected does not hold water for me. Its a cop out point of view.
Folk need to be honest.The main reasons people want habitat collected rare plants is to satisfy an ego thinking they have something others haven't; taking them to shows to emphasis 'the good feeling fix' .

[Stuart]

Some very strange views there. There's no ego type thing I've come across where someone boasts about having plants that nobody else has, maybe it's a northern thing? The reason people bought habitat plants was that there was little point in buying a tiny seedling Ariocarpus for £1 when they could buy a large mature Mexican import for £5 and save themselves 50 years of waiting to have a mature plant . No ego involved. That was in the 1970s pre CITES.
There's no UK trade in habitat plants nowadays unless I'm missing something and I feel I know the UK market fairly well. A quick search on eBay for Anacampseros Alstonii worldwide only shows a few small seed-grown plants. The problem isn't in the UK, it's in China and there's nothing we can do about it.
From a Judges point of view, there's no way to tell that a plant has come from habitat. It's easy to look at a plant and think it looks like a habitat plant but there's some very nice 50 year old seed-grown Aztekiums in collections and I wouldn't like to be the Judge that explained to an exhibitor why I'd thrown out their plant. The only way round this is to have a rule that 'plants that look like they might be habitat plants can't be exhibited' and if that was in the schedule there's no much point in having a show.

Stuart

[Herts Mike]

Defining habitat collected plants in cultivation is tricky. I have a number of Stapeliads originally collected by Peter Bruyns and are cuttings of cuttings of cuttings or seed.

I am also lucky to have a good relationship with Kew who allow me to take cuttings of collected plants. What about them?

[Nick_G]

I know of one UK nursery that openly sells habitat collected caudiciforms Stuart. Best if I don't name it though, could possibly be seen as libelous.

[ChrisR]

Its easy, or rather too convenient, to forget that not so many years ago one could visit a Uk nursery and see tray upon tray of bare rooted ex habitat plants.

Ernie is correct of course......as someone new to the hobby I too recall the habitat South African plants supplied by John Lavranos and sold by Jumanery and Whitestone in the 1970's and am ashamed to say that in my ignorance I bought some and killed most of them.

But there is a massive difference between then and now. Very few people were poaching back then. Now there are literally hundreds of local people doing it and all due to the Chinese who started a ball rolling which no one seems able to stop.

[el48tel]

Its easy, or rather too convenient, to forget that not so many years ago one could visit a Uk nursery and see tray upon tray of bare rooted ex habitat plants.

Ernie is correct of course......as someone new to the hobby I too recall the habitat South African plants supplied by John Lavranos and sold by Jumanery and Whitestone in the 1970's and am ashamed to say that in my ignorance I bought some and killed most of them.

But there is a massive difference between then and now. Very few people were poaching back then. Now there are literally hundreds of local people doing it and all due to the Chinese who started a ball rolling which no one seems able to stop.

Is it all down to one nation? Surely they were satisfying a need generated by enthusiasts and those wanting trendy decor (this year's craze .... something different next year).
I don't blame them .... it's satisfying their economy ... be it black or white economy .... any nation would do the same. Don't think we British are squeaky clean .... we have exploited and done dirty deeds in the past.
If there are no customers, then there's no demand. Whilst there's a demand for a particular niche plant or rarity, there are people prepared to provide it .... legally or otherwise. When you next wish for a plant ... you generate that next demand.