John Innes compost replacements

For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation and exhibition of cacti & other succulents.
Forum rules
For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation, exhibition & science of cacti & other succulents only.

Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
User avatar
Tony R
Moderator
Posts: 4011
https://www.behance.net/kuchnie-warszawa
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Branch: BROMLEY
Country: UK
Role within the BCSS: Member
Location: Hartley, LONGFIELD, Kent

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Tony R »

Better to trust an expert grower (Juster) who has real experience of using the product rather than a soothsayer of doom (Davey) who has no experience of it apart from likening it to his old bag of 'chipped woody prunings'!
Tony Roberts
Treasurer, Haworthia Society
Chairman, Tephrocactus Study Group
Moderator, BCSS Forum
Kent
(Gasteria, Mammillaria, small Opuntia, Cleistocactus and Sempervivum are my current special interests)
Davey246
Registered Guest
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Branch: LEICESTER
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Leicester

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Davey246 »

juster wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:26 pm That is not my experience Davey, I've been using it for several years with no problems, the plants are doing well and it does not become a sludge.
I have to say that I do not understand why it is still OK.
I have dabbled with composts based on bark and wood chips over the past 10 years or so and coir for nearer 30, probably longer. They are both uncomposted vegetable matter and that is how they have behaved here - they have composted over several months or more, except towards the top where they are too dry.
Maybe for C&S the pot contents are too dry for too long? That said, I'd never use either, and never used peat except by way of that in JI, for C&S.
Davey246
Registered Guest
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Branch: LEICESTER
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Leicester

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Davey246 »

Tony R wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:39 pm Better to trust an expert grower (Juster) who has real experience of using the product rather than a soothsayer of doom (Davey) who has no experience of it apart from likening it to his old bag of 'chipped woody prunings'!
I didn't realise that you knew me so well, what I do, where I go, anything at all about me in fact. Stalker?

Far, far, far better that you stick to what you DO know? Too much to hope for?

Mentioned previously, but I was in conversation, via a paper BCSS robin, and postal mail, with someone well up in the running of the Society - I could search the magazines for a name, and he too was very much disinclined to believe that coir in particular (WAY over 20 years ago), was suitable for C&S cultivation precisely because it rots-down.

Times move on, perhaps coir doesn't rot?
Davey246
Registered Guest
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Branch: LEICESTER
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Leicester

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Davey246 »

One thing that had never struck me before - my usual cactus mix is 60% aggregate and 40% JI, one third (or quarter, depending on the source of the formulation information) of the JI conventionally being peat and slightly less being sand. When tipping out pot-bound plants, what can be seen around/through the roots, looks (almost) entirely mineral.

For awkward plants such as pedio's, where I add at least a couple of very large stones to the pot first, so that rather little actual potting mix is used, I have used around 30% loam and 70% aggregate. Actually filling the pot, I would guess that there would be around 80-90% aggregate, ignoring contribution from the loam.
Last edited by Davey246 on Wed May 18, 2022 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MatDz
BCSS Member
Posts: 2110
Joined: 06 May 2020
Branch: None
Country: PL/GB
Role within the BCSS: Member

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by MatDz »

Steering back to the more positive side of the discussion, does anyone have good results with loam/aggregate mix as a regular potting substrate, or wouldn't it hold enough water?
Mat
Davey246
Registered Guest
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Branch: LEICESTER
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Leicester

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Davey246 »

As above, I have used loam plus aggregate - no problem.

Discussions about potting materials and blends are always going to produce VERY diverse comments as everyone will be using different greenhouses, in different aspects and have different preferred and habitual watering regimes. It would be impossible but these things should really only be talked of in combination, plus of course the actual plant(s) that is(are) in the pots.

For instance, there is not one chance in a gazillion that my preferred regime would succeed using a potting mix high in peat - it does not wet easily enough for the way that I work. Been there, done that with bought-in plants potted in peat plus grit. It obviously worked for the seller though.

If it ain't broke............................
Last edited by Davey246 on Wed May 18, 2022 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nick_G
BCSS Member
Posts: 750
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Branch: None
Country: Shetland

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Nick_G »

I'm using Melcourt peat free compost to grow Chinese broccoli in tubs and the growth has been excellent. I'll report back as to how much the stuff has broken down at the end of the summer. It's nice stuff to use.

I use 100% moler clay for my cacti.
BCSS no.33806

Turbinicarpus, Lophophora, Ariocarpus, Lobivia and Gymnocalycium
User avatar
Diane
BCSS Member
Posts: 5574
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Branch: None
Country: UK
Role within the BCSS: Member

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Diane »

“Far, far, far better that you stick to what you DO know? Too much to hope for?”

Yet another opinionated response from Davey246, who seems determined to stir up unpleasantness. And, as far as I am aware, doesn’t even grow cacti!

Both Tony R and Juster have been growing cacti and succulents for a many decades, and I would trust their opinion over a comparatively new poster who likes to prove his superiority without growing even growing these plants.

Have we actually seen any photos of C & S posted by him? I don’t think so.

Maybe this isn’t the forum for him…
Diane - member of Kingston branch

Growing cacti - balm to the soul!
Herts Mike
BCSS Member
Posts: 4303
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Branch: LEA VALLEY
Country: Uk

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Herts Mike »

Nick_G wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:16 pm I'm using Melcourt peat free compost to grow Chinese broccoli in tubs and the growth has been excellent. I'll report back as to how much the stuff has broken down at the end of the summer. It's nice stuff to use.

I use 100% moler clay for my cacti.
I used 100% moler clay for a season on my Stapeliads and the result was very good but I found the watering difficult and cumbersome as the water goes straight through and I couldn’t find a suitable tray to stand them in. What do you do Nick?
Davey246
Registered Guest
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Branch: LEICESTER
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Leicester

Re: John Innes compost replacements

Post by Davey246 »

Diane wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:39 pm “Far, far, far better that you stick to what you DO know? Too much to hope for?”

Yet another opinionated response from Davey246, who seems determined to stir up unpleasantness. And, as far as I am aware, doesn’t even grow cacti!
Really? Thank you for that oh so constructive comment.

Point me in the direction of opinion rather than experience over 40-50 years, that I have posted. I am very interested to learn from you.
Last edited by Davey246 on Wed May 18, 2022 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply